New pound coins in 2017

[Jostein]

Hey!

Anoyone know what is this:

A friend just sent me this picture...could it be a non adopted pattern of the coin? 


Bests,

Jostein.

[onecenter]

It would have made a very nicely designed coin.

[Alan71]

Yes, I agree, it would have been a good nod to continuity to use this adaption of the original £1 coin reverse.  The actual design is effectively an amalgam of the the 1984-87 designs.  Nice enough but hardly a definitive design.  Plus it leaves the 1p to 50p "jigsaw" shield hanging, with no coin showing the complete design.

[eurocoin]

I think this may be the reverse of the trial strike that was minted by George Osborne in 2014. The reverse of that coin was not shown before. It does not really look like an uncirculated coin though..

[eurocoin]

As more and more vending machine owners are realizing that the trial 1 pound coins are worth quite a lot of money, they are now ordering large quantities of trial coins at the mint using all kinds of excuses. At the same time the value of the trial 1 pound coins has dropped from 300 to around 110 pounds per piece.

[andyg]

As more and more vending machine owners are realizing that the trial 1 pound coins are worth quite a lot of money, they are now ordering large quantities of trial coins at the mint using all kinds of excuses. At the same time the value of the trial 1 pound coins has dropped from 300 to around 110 pounds per piece.

One solution would be for the mint to sell trial pieces - charge say £25 for them and wipe out the secondary market for those illegally kept ("lost")

[Alan71]

^^ That's what they did with the £2 trial piece from 1994 back in the late 90s, so maybe they might do it with the £1 once the circulation version is out.  There was obviously no eBay etc back then, and the Royal Mint's own Facebook presence ensures there would be a strong market for the trial piece.

Just had a look on eBay at the ones being sold now... who really wants to pay over £100 for a coin that looks as though it's circulated for at least five years?  Even if I had money to burn, I'm not sure I'd be that bothered about it.  I might consider forking out £25 for a pack from the Royal Mint though.

[andyg]

Just had a look on eBay at the ones being sold now... who really wants to pay over £100 for a coin that looks as though it's circulated for at least five years?  Even if I had money to burn, I'm not sure I'd be that bothered about it.  I might consider forking out £25 for a pack from the Royal Mint though.

Royal Mint are actively removing those from ebay sending letters out from lawyers (at least they were!)

[Alan71]

One sold last night for £126, and there's anotheron there now starting at £150, with no bids yet and two days left.  Or you can buy-it-now for £250.

[eurocoin]

The Royal Mint has completely messed up with this. People who want to order these have to deposit 80 pence per trial strike. If they don't return the trial strike, the Royal Mint takes the deposit and that is it. They won't go to the police or bring this for court. I have indeed seen messages from several people (e.g. their Head of Security and their Legal Counsel) in which they state that the pieces have to be returned but obviously everybody ignores these.

It is clear that the deposit per trial strike should have been much higher or the mint should have mentioned a high fine if the trial piece is not being returned in the agreement they have with these vending machine owners*. The Royal Mint has already said that they won't issue the trial coins in a special set (which they used to do in the past). Furthermore the Royal Mint does not want to disclose the mintage figure of these pieces, which also increases their value, while I am sure that the mintage figure is much higher than most collectors think.

*Allegedly the mint doesn't check at all if you have a vending machine or not, so everyone with a company in the UK can order these.

[eurocoin]

Last week someone from the Midlands found a new 1 pound coin in his change. Only some owners of vending machines already have them but they are not allowed to make photos of them let alone spend them. The piece looks very worn.

   

[FosseWay]

Royal Mint are actively removing those from ebay sending letters out from lawyers (at least they were!)

I think they'll be on a sticky wicket with that, unless they can demonstrate that the seller him/herself is the thief. AFAIK if someone buys one of these, finds one or is given one in good faith, it is their property to be disposed of as they wish, including on eBay.

[andyg]

I think they'll be on a sticky wicket with that, unless they can demonstrate that the seller him/herself is the thief. AFAIK if someone buys one of these, finds one or is given one in good faith, it is their property to be disposed of as they wish, including on eBay.

Not sure - the mint claim they own the trials - so I guess they are merely leased to the vending machine operators...

[Figleaf]

Don't know about English law. Under Napoleonic law, everything depends on "good faith". If the accused bought the object not knowing it was not the property of the seller, it's his to keep, but the plaintiff can still sue the seller if he is in breach of contract. If the plaintiff can make it likely that the accused knew the object was not the property of the seller, he loses the object, but you can sue the seller to get his money and legal costs back. It doesn't amount to the same thing, in particular if the seller is impossible to trace. In some countries, transactions at an auction are assumed to be good faith, unless the contrary can be proven, or even at all times.

If the situation in the UK is comparable, the UK mint must show that it is highly likely or certain that a buyer of a modern trial piece knew that the seller was not at liberty to sell the piece. If there is a law to that effect, that's easy because of the fiction that everyone is assumed to know the law. If the resale ban is based on contract it will be difficult to show that the buyer knew the contents of the contract. However, if the buyer is a knowledgable collector of modern coins or e.g. an active member of a forum where the legal situation has been discussed before the transaction took place, the judge is likely to decide that the buyer was in bad faith. If the buyer is of the "get rich quickly" type, the judge may see good faith but bad taste, which is unfortunately not punishable.

Peter

[Bimat]

According to The Guardian, the new pound coin will be put into circulation on March 28, 2017 (fine with me), but it also says:

[...]the old-style coin will be defunct by mid-October, the Treasury has announced. [..]

They must be returned and exchanged before 15 October 2017, when they will lose their legal tender status, the Treasury has said.
[...]

Lose legal tender status? Defunct? This is surprising, considering that they have not given much time to exchange to old coins for new ones!

Aditya