Author Topic: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???  (Read 977 times)

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Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« on: March 16, 2014, 07:04:05 PM »
Dear Colleagues, is this right attribution for this dirham "al-Mu`tamid with al-Mu`tadid"? On of our friends from a neighboring forum kindly attributed it this way, but I just couldnt find any similar coin on the web citing this two names together. Would appreciate some clarifications on it. Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:23:08 PM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 10:00:51 AM »
I can not give you a certain attribution of this coin. I also can not conclusively decipher the year of issue.
The name of the issuer should be the last line of the center inscription in your lower picture.
This could start with Al-  and seems to end with Allah. My Kufic is not good enough to conclusively say what's in between in this state
On the centre inscription of you upper picture is the Kalima. Interesting is that below this there is an extra line also with a name which starts with Al- and ends with Allah.
One ending could be Bi-Allah the other Ala-Allah. So it appears there indeed are two names on this coin. Sorry i can not say more at this moment.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 10:26:13 AM »
Dear Anthony, thanks a lot for your comments. Unfortunately my ability to read kufic is confined to comparing the script to already identified one  :( as far as I see from al-Mu`tamid coins mentioning two names is quite normal, but his son's name, al-Mu`tadid, never appears on father's coins. That is why i presumed the attribution "with  al-Mu`tadid" to be inaccurate..

Offline THCoins

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 11:03:23 AM »
Some searching suggests that these names do occur together on Samarqand issues.
Some googling reveals this: click
(Not identical, but comes very close !)

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 11:14:57 AM »
Some searching suggests that these names do occur together on Samarqand issues.
Some googling reveals this: click
(Not identical, but comes very close !)

Yes, me too I came across this piece while searching for identical coin...this is the only issue bearing both father and son's name.

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 03:52:31 PM »
According to Eshragh for 278 and 279 H coins with both names are also known from Basra, Kufa and Surra man Ra'a (B1353, B1354 and B1356). The obverses have "al-Mu'tadid billah" and the reverses "al-Mu'tamid alallah". Interestingly, Eshragh doesn't list a coin of this type from Samarkand, so there may be other mints that used both names as well, but seemingly just in 278-9.

Alan

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Abbasid: al-Mu`tamid, Ar dirham, 279 AH, with al-Mu`tadid???
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 04:57:51 AM »
Thanks, dear Alan. Here is S.Album comment on ZENO with regards to this coin: Mint is Madinat al-Salam, type A-240.8.