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River Wear Commission Pass

Started by Kushi, March 16, 2014, 12:05:26 PM

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bhx7

The more you look at them the more differences start to show. The rope type line below the top orb on one and straight on the other for example... ;D

bhx7

Another variety of the River Wear Commission's Pass on this one countermarked R.W.C. on obverse and TRANSFER on reverse.

Brian

Figleaf

I think the numbered RWC passes are all for multi-use subscriptors of ferry services, but I wonder if TRANSFER just means transport to the other side of the river or a transfer of rights to another person under the same number. The RWC counterstamp makes the second option a bit more likely. RWC and TRANSFER would be a sort of verification that would urge the ticket inspector to turn the token around and make fraud a bit less likely (note different font sizes on the punches).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

bhx7

Hi Peter,

Transfer tickets were and still are used in the North East to go across different services which are linked. I have used transfer tickets to go from Bus to Metro and also onto the Ferry. Obviously the tickets I have used were card. Wonder if this was for the Sunderland Commission work staff who used both the Ferry and also the Bus services, etc...

I have just acquired another variety of the River Wear Commission passes. This one is much lighter, smaller and I would say better made.

Brian

Figleaf

It's a good hypothesis, but how would it work in practice? A paper ticket would have a cancellation containing the information necessary to show that the holder is entitled to a transfer, e.g in Amsterdam, any cancellation on a public transport ticket contained a time and gave the right to an unlimited number of transfers within Amsterdam and for the next 45 minutes. That would not be possible on a metal ticket.

Since the River Wear metal tickets were numbered, they were likely for multiple use and the number connected them to a user register that had to be checked every time the ticket was used for its validity. It would have been just as cumbersome and time-consuming if the register, not the token, had shown whether and on which conditions the user was entitled to transfers. That way, the token would not have been useless for re-issue if it was surrendered by the previous owner and the new owner didn't want the transfer.

Or am I missing something?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

bhx7

The Corporations were local government goups which ran everything from buses to water and utilities. I believe these tokens would have been issued to the Corparation workforce not the public. They would have probably been held on a keychain or something similar. Each Pass number would have corresponded to an individual workers name. At least that is my understanding. In my area alone there were dozens of Corporations. The River Wear Commission would have came under the Sunderland Corporation which also ran the Tramways and Buses in the area as well as water, electricity and gas.

Town Councils and local Boroughs were given the right to create Corporations after the Municipal Corporations Act 1835. This allowed local councils to raise finances so that they could run their areas more effectively. The council were elected py the taxpayers of the area, initially only the more wealthy of the areas. By the late 1890's this had started to change and most men had the ability to vote. As transport, utilities and water become more standard the Corporation's became more active in the running of them, which helped raise money for local infrastructure such as upkeep of roads, sewers, etc...

A number of local Corporations worked together to create better transport routes and other needed services. Darlington and Stockton are a good example as they ran bus and tram services together.

It is a fascinating subject which encompasses much more than this very very brief account. Many of the tokens which we collect, especially in the transport field, can be linked back to the local government Corporations.

Brian

Henk

Quote from: bhx7 on March 10, 2024, 12:47:59 AMI believe these tokens would have been issued to the Corparation workforce not the public. They would have probably been held on a keychain or something similar. Each Pass number would have corresponded to an individual workers name. At least that is my understanding.
Brian

As the incuse numbers are rather large, up to 5 digits, this suggests a large number of users and thus use by the public. It could also be that the first two digits indicate the department involved and the final three the employee. But even then this would indicate hundreds of employees. Also the tokens have PASS on them. This also is, I think an indication of more general use.

Figleaf

I agree. There is just no way the river Wear commission would have had a minimum of some 28 000 employees. In addition, the RWC counterstamp on an RWC token shown above is best explained by a tariff change for the clients.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

JohnI

Smith attributes the larger tokens to WW1 and the smaller one (Pass No. 4077 above) to WW2. During WW1 and probably WW2 there was restricted access to the docks. This opens up the possibility that the passes are war time passes to give access to the docks.

For the WW1 ones stamped GC Ltd Smith notes that they were later used by George Clark Co. employees - this might mean that the company adopted them as pay check. This suggests that others with company names, including the ones stamped RWC, were issued to and controlled by specific companies.

A pass marked TRANSFER for dock access would suggest that it was used by people embarking on ships (i.e. permission to transfer through the docks rather than to work in the docks).

The singe sided checks below may have had a similar purpose during WW1 for Liverpool but are not listed in Smith;

Liverpool Check.jpg

These checks, like the Wear River Commission ones go to high numbers.


Regards;


John

Figleaf

I like this hypothesis on the meaning of TRANSFER. Sunderlands was not a navy base, though. Its dock activity was mainly civil ship building and repair, but since it was a shipbuilding centre of national importance concentrated in a relatively small area, it did have the attention of the Luftwaffe. Rationally, there would not have been much of a case for extra security (as opposed to defence) in wartime, but the military has its own reasoning.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

artsmith

From a post in 2017 in the Facebook group Transportation Token Collectors:

Mark Smith
I'm fairly sure that the two River Wear Commissioners tokens are not transport tokens but employee's passes to be allowed to enter certain sensitive industrial shipbuilding areas on the Wear in Sunderland. The large one was used during WWI and the smaller one in WW II. For references see the late Jeff Gardiner's book on the Tokens of Durham & Northumberland.

Arthur Smith
Top Contributor
I think Mark Smith is correct. Here is a listing currently on ebay for four of the tokens-one with a key still attached.

Figleaf

 :applause: Hypothesis for the word TRANSFER confirmed, I think. The tokens must have had at least three purposes: key fob, transfer and access - since there are tokens without the additional word TRANSFER and since that word would be superfluous if all tokens would be valid for transfer.

One option is that there was an entry as well as an exit check, so TRANSFER would allow a person to leave the secured area without a hassle in the morning. A bit tough for the night shift, though. Or maybe the TRANSFER tokens were destined for those arriving by ferry and valid for the boat ride also?

Obviously, the keys opened the locks, so the tokens were for id. That doesn't sound altogether logical. If there was a guard at the door, why couldn't the guard open it on sight of the token? That would have eliminated risks like lost keys. If there was no guard, why have the token and not just a fob with an identification number and a "if you find me, please send to this address" notice, as hotels used to do?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

JohnI

The website https://war-work.com/ covers wartime passes and tokens. It is a good site but not exhaustive with respect to non-government tokens/passes. It does not include the Wear River passes.

The home page on the website has a picture of a woman wearing her ID pass and locker key. It is probably the same for the key/pass in the picture above - the employee had put the locker key and ID pass together.

The government and large commercial armament facilities (e.g. Vickers, Beardmore) had an employee paycheck/ID pass system in place. The River Wear and Mersey passes probably came about because they were dock/shipyard facilities with many operators and controlled by a local government authority (Wear River Commission, Mersey Dock and Harbour Board) with the local government authority responsible for security.

The UK during both wars was aware of the need to protect shipping to sustain a war effort. It would have been aware of the risk to ships in dock as well as ships being built. It is possible that, like modern airports, the passes were used for all areas controlled by the local authority outwith the defined public areas (e.g. the ferry ports and, in the case of Liverpool, the tram operated railway).


Regards;



John

bhx7

Quote from: artsmith on March 12, 2024, 09:59:51 AMFrom a post in 2017 in the Facebook group Transportation Token Collectors:

Mark Smith
I'm fairly sure that the two River Wear Commissioners tokens are not transport tokens but employee's passes to be allowed to enter certain sensitive industrial shipbuilding areas on the Wear in Sunderland. The large one was used during WWI and the smaller one in WW II. For references see the late Jeff Gardiner's book on the Tokens of Durham & Northumberland.

Arthur Smith
Top Contributor
I think Mark Smith is correct. Here is a listing currently on ebay for four of the tokens-one with a key still attached.


Thanks Art. I thought it was more employees and specified peoples passes. Mark knows his stuff.

Cheers
Brian

PS Still try to find that info for you