Music: Composers on Coins

[Pabitra]

I have been offerred this coin as Hungarian coin on a composer.

Franz Liszt  (October 22, 1811 – July 31, 1886) was a 19th-century Hungarian composer, pianist, conductor, and teacher.
Liszt became renowned in Europe during the nineteenth century for his virtuosic skill as a pianist. He was said by his contemporaries to have been the most technically advanced pianist of his age, and in the 1840s he was considered by some to be perhaps the greatest pianist of all time. Liszt was also a well-known and influential composer, piano teacher and conductor. He was a benefactor to other composers, including Richard Wagner, Hector Berlioz, Camille Saint-Saëns, Edvard Grieg and Alexander Borodin.
As a composer, Liszt was one of the most prominent representatives of the "Neudeutsche Schule" ("New German School"). He left behind an extensive and diverse body of work in which he influenced his forward-looking contemporaries and anticipated some 20th-century ideas and trends. Some of his most notable contributions were the invention of the symphonic poem, developing the concept of thematic transformation as part of his experiments inmusical form and making radical departures in harmony. He also played an important role in popularizing a wide array of music by transcribing it for piano.

It does not appear to be a coin since denomination is missing. The dealer has offerred the letter of authenticity but I am still unsure. Perhaps some member can add to this?

[chrisild]

As you wrote, that is not a coin. All I need to say is "Samlerhuset".   Seems that the company which issued this medal is part of that group. http://www.samlerhuset.com/i/offices/magyar-kincstar.aspx Ask the British about the London Mint Office, the Irish about the Dublin Mint Office, and so on.

Christian

[Alan Glasser]

Regarding the Liszt "piece", in a way I'm rather glad it's not a "coin". I'm not really fond of the representation of Liszt. I think the pieces below do a somewhat more complementary job to the master composer and pianist: Hungary 1938 5 Pengo, 1961 50 Forint, 2000 3,000 Forints and Germany 2011 10 Euro. Christian, the 50,000 Forint is on my "Wish List". Not going to happen any time soon!!

Alan




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[chrisild]

The Hungarian Mint used an even younger Liszt for its 2011 coin (image from their website). Somewhat pricy though: gold, face value 50,000 forint, costs about €450 if you buy it from the mint. If you have a little more in your piggy bank, there is a piedfort version as well.

Christian

[Alan Glasser]

Hello, Pabitra.

I have MOST of the Russian composer coins..but one has been a real challange to locate...yet alone afford. I was VERY lucky to obtain years ago, the Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov pieces when gold was not so crazy and I slabbed them more recently to make sure they were authentic. Rachmaninov remains one of my favorite composers (along with Beethoven...and I have a zillion Beethoven coins..none Russian of course.) Tchaikovsky is quite nice too (love the fifth symphony) but he just doesn't make my "favorite composer" list. The elusive Russian composer coin is Y-455, 150 Rubles of Igor Stravinsky dated 1993 as are the Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov coins. It would be my first Platinum coin if I ever find one. I would probably have to sell myself into bondage to be able to afford it. (How much is a 62 year old pianist/composer worth in bondage?) Anyone want to talk "TRADE"? I have good teeth...and they are all my own!!!   I do housework too and make great Kosher pickels and fudge! As far as the music of old Igor...not my favorite...I am kind of stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries and walk cautiously into the 20th...

I don't have the Russian composer coins listed by "country"...they are cataloged in my collection by name...but if anyone is interested, I could put together a list and maybe pictures when I next go to the bank.

Alan





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[<k>]

Hungary, 100 forint, 1961.  Béla Bartók.

[Alan Glasser]

Hello <k> .

Nice coin and photo. I have the 2 silver Bartok pieces, but the gold pieces elude me. I was hoping that with the gold price drop, I might stumble on an affordable example of the 50 or 100 Forint Bartok, Liszt or Kodaly gold coins.  I did find a Liszt 50 Forint gold. Due any day. I found it at a gold bullion dealer for a decent price...not too much higher than melt. if I could find 1 or 2 of the others priced reasonably, I would splurge.

Thanks for thinking of my collecting obsession (and wallet drainer). 

Alan

[Alan Glasser]

Though I was on a bit of a hiatus from coin buying, these 3 pieces are very recent acquisitions (the Liszt 50 forint came yesterday). OK... hiatus is over I guess...(somebody tell my budget that!!!)

The coins are:

Tuvalu $1 of 2011 honoring Franz Liszt,

Hungary 50 Forint of 1961 honoring Franz Liszt,

Russia 2 Roubles of 2004 Honoring Mikhail Glinka.    Alan

 







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[Pabitra]

Hi Alan,
I could find this coin which was issued by Azerbaijan on Uzeyir Hajibeyov.
Uzeyir bey Abdul Huseyn oglu Hajibeyov ( September 18, 1885, Agjabadi – November 23, 1948, Baku) was an Azerbaijani and Soviet composer, conductor, publicist, playwright, teacher, translator, and social figure from Azerbaijan. He is recognized as the father of Azerbaijani composed classical music and opera. Uzeyir Hajibeyov composed the music of the national anthem of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic (which was re-adopted after Azerbaijan regained its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991). He also composed the anthem used by Azerbaijan during the Soviet period. He was the first composer of an opera in the Islamic world.

This coin will also be under the theme of National Anthem Composers.

The gold coin, issued in 2008, had mintage of only 1000 pieces and is quite a difficult coin to locate.

[Alan Glasser]

Hello, Pabitra.

This is wonderful information (Azerbijan composer coin). Thank you so much. I don't know the price of this coin, but I will do some searching to see if I can find one.... My thinking is that the cost may be prohibitive but I am intrigued and will search, "just in case". Neither of these coins are listed in SCWC or the NGC World Coin site.

I did a bit of research on the piece and found this article (attached below) showing that there are 3 music related coins in the series. Then I also found listings for KM-38 and KM-45  for 50 and 100 Manat coins of 1999 honoring a "Musician Riding a Horse". I would like to know the significance of the design so the research continues.

I have only 1 music coin from Azerbijan, which is in my musical instrument sub set. It is KM-39, no date (2006) featuring musical instruments with a face value of 1 Qapik.

Regarding the gold coins in the photo below, it states that they were legal tender. Do gold coins really circulate in Azerbijan? Or, should I assume that they COULD circulate but it is expected that collectors/dealers would obtain them all before they ever reached circulation?

Thanks so much, Pabitra. I am very excited about your discovery. I may never own the coin(s) but it is exciting to know they are "there" if I ever win the lottery.

All the best from Alan in Massachusetts


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[Figleaf]

In 1999, Azerbaijian used the old manat. An amount of 100 old manat is equivalent to USD 0.02547 (around 2-1/2 cents), 50 old manat is the equivalent of USD 0.01274. I will take all the pieces you can find and I won't care if they are legal tender or not, but I suspect that you may be somewhat reluctant to put any of these pieces in circulation for their face value, whether they are legal tender or not.

Gold pieces have not been struck for circulation at face value anywhere in the world for around a century now.

Peter

[Alan Glasser]

Hello, Peter.

Thanks for the information on the Manat. You and I will have to compete for the 100 Manat gold coins at face value! Which one of us is more handsome and can flash a prettier smile??? You would win in the brains department but I got YOU beat in the Piano performance/composition department. One of the ways I would befriend the pretty girls in college is that I wrote a lot of them piano compositions. Worked like a charm!  I wonder if we could use THAT as a winning quality for the "ownership- at-face-value-Manat-gold-coin-competition? If so, as they say here "stateside"...you're toast!

I never really sat down and thought about when gold coins stopped being used a circulating money. A century sounds about right but the U.S. was still issuing $10 and $20 gold pieces until 1933 (1932 for "regular", non controversial dates). That's pretty close to a century.

Now, how long has silver been "out of circulation"? The U.S. issued 90% silver coins (dime, quarter and half dollar) through 1964 and then continued through 1970 with 40% silver in the half dollar. These circulated because my wife and I liked going to the bank on dates, pooling our money and buying rolls of half dollars. 40% silver halves were found easily and 90%ers were not that scarce either. We still have all those coins and that goes back to 1973-1975.  Switzerland stopped using silver in about 1968 or so. Does anyone know of a country that has silver still circulating?

I asked while we were in Central America if they had any "moneda efectiva de plata" and they looked at me as if I had 3 heads. Was the late 1960's a "watershead" time when silver just stopped being used for coins? I assume at that time, silver values exceeded face value of the coins being minted so the changeover occured. Looks like the turnover was around 1967 in Canada, maybe 1966 for Australia. Austria seemed to go somewhat later with debased silver until 1978 or so but most of these are collector 50 schilling commemoratives and later dates exist for 100 Schilling commemoratives in silver. I'm curious as to what country lasted the longest in issuing silver coins that actually circulated.

alan

[Figleaf]

Silver is a different story. It ceased to be a monetary metal after the Napoleonic wars, as the world switched over to central banking. In other words, when paper money is introduced, silver is no longer necessary in coins. However, it continued to be used for prestige reasons, interrupted by times of war and revolution.

Around the 1960's, there was a huge energy crisis, as oil went from $4/barrel to $32/barrel, sliding back to a still hefty $15/barrel with a lot of volatility. This drove home that using silver (just another commodity, that had risen on the back of oil) in coins is a waste of taxpayer's money. The US was a special case, as USD was cut loose from the price of gold, making a hefty depreciation possible. If I remember correctly, USD depreciated by about a third against a basket of currencies. However, the oil crisis caused rampant inflation in a majority of developing countries, so those still using silver also quickly found out that using silver for coins is wasteful. As silver went out of fashion, most of the rest of the world followed suit. If memory doesn't deceive, Mexico - producing both oil and silver in quantity - was one of the last or the last country issuing (low grade) silver coins. I still got them in circulation around 1970.

Gold went out more quickly, because it was more harmful to the economy: it was used as an inflation hedge when war threatened. (France was infamous as a country where people would keep gold "in the mattress", even through the 1960s. The introduction of the new franc reduced the habit to small time metal trading.) This would aggravate financial market volatility: just as more liquidity was needed to face an economic crisis, retail investors would go illiquid. After the first world war, gold coins would still be struck, though they were no longer circulated, but used for small time investment. After the second world war, they were just issued to milk collectors. The only exceptions were central Asian OPEC countries, where gold was in demand for prestige purposes and - for a short period only - a loophole in the EU tax regulations.

Piano music endured all these crises. Yes, you have a large lead on me there. As a boy, I had a one octave piano and I could play "Frère Jacques"on it, though, so consider yourself warned

Peter

[paisepagal]

The Rs10 25th Year of Indian independence 1972 coin briefly circulated. However this crown sized coin along with its predessecors failed to find favour with most people and it was quickly discontinued. The coin was of quaternary alloy with 50% constituted in silver.

[Alan Glasser]

Hello Peter and paisepegal.

So it would appear that India and Mexico hung out the among the longest in issuing silver coins for circulation. I have a few of the large Mexico 1 Peso coins with, if I recall .100 silver....yes...I just checked. KM-459 ...each coin contained .0514 ounces of silver. One of the coins I have has a deep obverse scratch ftom 12:00 to 6:00 roughly... perhaps someone was looking for the silver??? 

paisepagal, I took a look at the 10 rs of 1972. ... .500 silver or .367 ounces . That's a decent silver content. Did the 10 Rs and 20 Rs of 1973 FAO issue (KM-188 and 240) ever circulate?  .3617 ounces and .4822 ounces respectively.

Peter..."Frere Jacques" on a 1 octave piano? Gee...you still have about 1/3 octave left over. Maybe you better "bone up" and expand your horizons a bit  before the big Manat competition. 

Best wishes guys.   Alan