Author Topic: Music: Composers on Coins  (Read 86514 times)

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Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 02:45:25 AM »
Hello, chrisild.

Thank you for the references on the Romanian bank and the composer coins that I have in Tombac. Though many of the pages did not translate into English, I could figure out that there was no reference to the Tombac Enescu or Porumbescu "coins". Very interesting. Someone wrote me about a year ago questioning how I obtained them as they were unauthorized. The speculation is that they were made at the mint under "questionable" circumstances...somewhat like the 1913 Liberty nickel here in the U.S.. That speculation makes the coins all much more interesting. When I received the brief note from the mint, it was also suggested that they were unauthorized but the reference wasn't clear. I purchased them from a dealer I met online in Romania.

If anyone has the NGC Population reports on these pieces, I would be grateful if you could share the information.

Many thanks.  Alan


Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 03:02:32 PM »
Just out of curiosity, I zipped off another e-mail to the Romanian Mint last night asking about mintages for the Porumbescu and Enescu TOMBAC 500 Lei coins, requesting mintages of each.

I was pleased to get the following response this morning:

Ciprian Porumbescu
•   face value: 500 LEI;
•   metal: silver 999/1000;
•   fineness: 31,1030 g;
•   diameter: 37 mm;
•   edge: milled
•   quality: proof;
•   mintage: 500 ;    

   
George Enescu
•   face value: 500 LEI;
•   metal: gold 999/1000;
•   fineness: 31,1030 g;
•   diameter: 35 mm;
•   edge: milled
•   quality: proof;
•   mintage: 250 ;

So, the mystery deepens. If the mint doesn't even have them as being minted, I wonder where they did come from, and, why would NGC certify them as 500 Lei coins if they technically don't exist by mint records? I sure would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see how these pieces were made...and by whom.

Maybe I'll write romaniancoins.com and ask if they have any information. They were kind enough to publish the photos I sent them on to their website.   

Have a great day (evening?) everyone.  Alan

   


Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2011, 05:40:57 PM »
If anyone is following this, I received another reply today, this one from the owners of the romaniacoins.com site. I am attaching their reply to my question as to mintages (how and how many) of the TOMBAC Porumbescu and Enescu music coins. I think this is the best information I will receive and I understand why the Romanian Mint was so "vague" in their reply posted here earlier.

"The National Mint of Romania will never recognize the essay as being minted al NMR. Of course, the tombac essay was indeed minted at NMR, with the original dies.
There is a dark story around any essay and pattern minted until 2005. The popular belief among Romanian collectors is that some people working at the Mint have used the original dies for strucking "essays". Aluminum and tombac were the metals used. Nobody know how many pieces were struck "officially" and how many were phony. Some essays were smuggled outside the mint and sold to collectors. After 2005 (in 2005 it was a scandal regarding the Mint, some people were dismissed) there are no off-metal essays known on the market.
Please note that NMR never officially sold essays or patterns to the collectors!

Some sellers pretend to know the essays mintage figures: 10 pieces.

Well, that just makes their existence even more interesting.

Alan

Offline Bimat

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 05:44:05 PM »
At-least your getting answers. If you try the same thing with any of the Indian mints, you will either will not get any reply or a reply saying: 'We are sorry but we can not disclose mintage figures for security reasons'  ::)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2011, 07:18:40 PM »
Hi, Aditya.

Wow...so much secrecy. I'm not sure I understand why, but it sure makes the coins so much more "mysterious". I have visions of some mint employee, dressed all in black, deactivating the safety alarms at 3:00 in the morning and minting a few "coins". Hmmmm...I wonder if they take custom orders??

Alan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2011, 10:54:42 PM »
Yes, "private initiative" producing oddities with original dies has happened before. Also, not all governments are above using original dies to produce restrikes. Some examples:
  • The GDR had expensive commemoratives re-struck
  • German mints struck Polish and German coins by private initiative
  • Indian mints coined gold coins as well as several proofs from the times of British rule
  • Dutch mints made off-metal strikes on request as new year presents
  • Russian mints struck coins that had never been issued at the request of collectors (novodels)
  • The London mint struck coins at the request of influential citizens (e.g. the Northumberland shilling)

These are problems for collectors, but also a fact of life. Research and spreading knowledge is the only answer, but as a teacher, you will know how difficult it is to convince people of an unpopular truth.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 06:03:30 PM »

Hello, everyone.

Below are 2 new additions to the music collection that arrived yesterday/ Erasmus (1435-1536)wrote a great deal about music in his times and was quite influential in that regard.

J.A. Komensky (1592-1670) felt that music should be a part of every child's education...very progressive for the time and I couldn't agree with him more strongly. As a teacher, grades K-12 for 35 years or so, I SAW firsthand how music incoorporated into the classroom halps children develop their social, physical, intellectual skills and even their emotional development. Fascinating stuff.  I still teach piano privately and get an occasional special needs pupil...music really herlps these kids in so many ways. Komensky was way ahead of his time in his thinking.

Christian, thanks for the heads up on the Prague Music Academy coin. I am joining the mailing list so I can "pre-order".

Peter, have you been to see the bells in the tomb of marqui YI? One of my life goals is to get to Tibet, and the bells would make an interesting side trip...though I never considered Tibet as part of China...and never will. 

Have a great day/evening, everyone.  Alan in Massachusetts





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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 10:54:15 PM »
Yes, I saw the bells. They were not in the tomb but in a museum in Wuhan. They were not as nicely set up as today, with a reconstruction of the wooden frames, but impressive enough.

As a piano teacher, you may like these two pieces, issued in Brasil for the centennial of Ary Barroso. Would you have expected a caricature in metal?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Bimat

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 03:06:54 PM »
A Polish 2 Zloty coin showing portrait of Krzysztof Komeda.

Image (from bank's website)



I'm sure Alan must have got this one :D

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Bimat

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 03:10:58 PM »
Another Polish coin showing Czesław Niemen.

Image:



Seems that Poland has a series based on this theme.  :)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2011, 10:11:40 PM »
Well, today held a complete surprise for me in the mail box. About 5 months ago I ordered a coin from Moldova and since it was such a long time, it went off E-Bay's radar, and mine. To be honest, I completely forgot about it (I have since created a record keeping system to remedy THAT problem!!) but today...there it was, in a tattered envelope, taped multiple times, my address barely legible...from Moldova. I had to sign for it even so obviously the P.O. didn't let it slip like I did. Stefan Neaga, composer from Moldova. I am going to have to do some research about this composer as there seems to be very little about him on the net and no mention of him in "Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians". When I have time to edit and make the "true size" I will submit photos to George as there is no photo for this coin on Numismaster. 
I hope this note finds everyone well!!
Alan in Massachusetts


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Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2011, 02:58:34 AM »
Ah yes...2 of my most difficult acquisitions. I'm not quite sure, but the one on the left, if you found it on Romainiacoins.com, is MY contribution to that site. The story came up here before (because I brought it up) but the coin on the right, silver, is a legitimate issue. The one on the left, made of TOMBAC, has a curious and mysterious background because supposedly it was never minted. Possibly mint officials playing around?? Anyway, there are estimated to be 15 or so known, and my efforts to get the "real story" have not been successful. When i wrote the Romanian mint, i received a rather surprising reply that they did not authorize their minting and that it should never have left the mint. A trial strike? Now, other Romanian sets have been issued with a gold, silver and tombac strike but the tombac one below (is it Emenescu or Porembescu...I'm too tired to go check) is a head scratcher. Not a terribly expensive piece...either the silver or Tombac...low demand I guess...but hard as heck to find...I believe there is one on E-Bay (silver) now but already have it.

Would love details if anyone can help.

Alan   Massachusetts 

Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 12:59:30 AM »
Hello, everyone. Alan from Massachusetts here...been out of the collecting mode for a bit what with students, planning the cruise and day trips, baby showers, shopping for gifts....but have stuck my toe in again for a brief respite until we leave in a couple of weeks for Northern Europe.

I received a "coin" today for the music collection dated 2006, commemorating the 25th anniversary of tghe passing of John Lennon. The obverse (I think) shows "Cook Islands.Commemoration.Elizabeth ll" and a small bust at top with a large sun like figure in the middle. The reverse has a bust of John Lennon 1940-1980. There is no denomination. I purchased this as a "coin" but I am wondering if it is just a commemorative medal. They are readily seen on E-Bay. Mine is silver.

One long sought acquisition was ordered yesterday, the Sir Edward Elgar 2007 1 ounce silver Proof 5 pounds of Alderny. Been hunting for this one for a while. It isn't in World Coins 2011 5th edition.

No luck on the 1989 Tonga KM-160, 1 Pa'anga...10,000 minted. I wonder where they all are. I have written the Tonga National Bank, a couple of tourist shops and quite by accident, a Tonga tourist bureau who said that no coins like that were ever minted. A request somehow made it to an office in the Royal Palace. VERY kind and helpful people...but no luck. Oh well...

All the best.   Alan in Massachusetts 

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 01:30:58 AM »
It seems like you bought yourself a medal. In contrast with the Elgar pieces, it is not listed in Numismaster (the online equivalent of the Standard Catalog of World Coins). On the Tonga piece, the confusion may have been caused by the fact that the thing is dated 1993, not 1989.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Alan Glasser

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Re: Music: Composers on Coins
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 03:37:42 AM »
Hi, Peter.

You're right. 1993 it is for the Tonga coin. I mixed it up with another elusive piece that is driving me CRAZY!!! Thanks for correcting me. Gee...maybe someone will find one in pocket change now and mail it to me???  ::)

Alan