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Help With Thailand Coin

Started by Prosit, December 29, 2013, 12:19:47 PM

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Prosit

I did a search but didn't find this coin so I am hoping I didn't already post it.

To help educate me, it would be very helpful if someone could draw a line to the date and the denomination.

My note says Y# 57, 1944 but those two pieces of information clash.
This does not have a hole in the center although there is a place for one.

Apparently made of Tin and it is about 15mm.
Help?

Dale


Prosit

I think you are rignt, Thanks!

But I still don't know enough to see the date or the denomination on the coin.
Do I have the first image upside down?
Dale

Quote from: @josephjk on December 29, 2013, 12:32:40 PM
Looks a lot like this one Dale....

http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces10998.html

http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/world-coin-prices.aspx?category=54561&worldcoinid=148041&FromSearch=true

@josephjk

The coin on NGC has an upside down image (yours is fine). Hope this helps...... date converter...
http://en.numista.com/numisdoc/calendar-thai-33.html

Edit: looks like the rev in your image is upside down... ;)


Prosit

Thanks! That helps a lot. I have less trouble with the more modern coins.
What does the "WA" looking thingy before the date actually mean?

Dale

@josephjk

"The first two letters to the left of the date indicate that this date belongs to the Buddhist calendar."  there is a lot more detail here.....

http://creounity.com/apps/time_machine/index.php?go=thailand.php&lang=en

Prosit

That is all good and interesting and helpful.  However I am trying to see what they mean.

For instance the  W looking letter, when looking at a Thailand Alphabet might appear to translate to a F.
Or since the right leg of the character doesn't extend upward...more likely translates to the letter P.

The A looking character could be ....more difficult....maybe translates to an S


For instance BC....is always taken as Before Christ....but it actually means something like "Ante Christum Natum"
in French, "avant J.C." (before Jesus Christ); in German, "vor Christi Geburt" (before Christ's birth).

Anyway the WA looking character (s) likely stand for a phrase with a meaning other than what we casually take it to mean.

Maybe it means After Siddhārtha Gautama   ;D

Dale


Just trying to see the Thai phrase for the date and what it means.


@josephjk

Googled 'thai dates" and got some highly interesting websites that were rather enjoyable to look at..... but they did not answer your questions.... ???

the quest continues....  :D

@josephjk

Dale it looks like the two letters are for "Buddhist era" much like AD in Gregorian....
from wiki....

The Thai solar calendar, Suriyakhati (Thai: สุริยคติ) was adopted by King Chulalongkorn (Rama V) in AD 1888 as the Siamese version of the Gregorian calendar. It is the legal calendar in Thailand, though Thai lunar calendar dates continue in use. Years are now counted in the Buddhist Era (BE: พ.ศ. พุทธศักราช pútthasàkkàrât) that is 543 years greater than the Christian Era ( ค.ศ. คริสต์ศักราช krítsàkkàrât).

Prosit

That is interesting.
So if the The A looking character maybe translates to an S
that could be for Suriyakhati  :)

maybe

Dale



Quote from: @josephjk on December 29, 2013, 02:54:21 PM
Dale it looks like the two letters are for "Buddhist era" much like AD in Gregorian....
from wiki....

The Thai solar calendar, Suriyakhati (Thai: สุริยคติ) was adopted by King Chulalongkorn (Rama V) in AD 1888 as the Siamese version of the Gregorian calendar. It is the legal calendar in Thailand, though Thai lunar calendar dates continue in use. Years are now counted in the Buddhist Era (BE: พ.ศ. พุทธศักราช pútthasàkkàrât) that is 543 years greater than the Christian Era ( ค.ศ. คริสต์ศักราช krítsàkkàrât).

chinnotes

I am afraid, the suggestion, "S" may be derived from "Suriyakhati" is not true...

The two consonants before the year are ,,P" and ,,S", derived from "พุทธศักราช", pronunciation roughly ,,Putta-sakkarart".
พุทธ = ,,Putta" or ,,Put" means ,,Buddha,
ศักราช = ,,sakkarart" means ,,era" (derived from Sanskrit). "P" and "S" are simply the first letters of these two words.

Erwin

Pabitra

The Sanskrit word for "era" is "samvat"

Used in "Vikrami Samwat" or VS which is used in current coins of Nepal and earlier on some of the princely states coins in India.

Another era is "Shaka Samwat" which is used in National Calendar in India.

chinnotes

I do not know any Sanskrit, only Thai. I have, however, several books on the etymology of Thai language, amongst others ,,INDIC LOANWORDS IN SPOKEN THAI" by William Gedney. Some of these sources say that ศักราช = "sakkarart has a Sansktit origin, and is a compound word, the first part being ศัก = "sakk" or "sakka". I assume this is the same word as "Shaka" in "Shaka Samvat". There is another word in Thai, or better a different form of ศัก, namely ศก (roughly pronounced sokk), meaning ,,era, year", like in ศกนี้ = this year, ศกหน้า = next year, and ศกก่อน = last year. This word is said to have its origin in Pali.
The 2nd part of the word "sakkarart" is ราช = ,,rart" , as a suffix meaning royal. In the book cited above it is said that this word is derived from the Sanskrit "raja".
I want to repeat that I have no knowledge of Sanskrit at all, but fully depend on the books I have...
Erwin

Figleaf

Pabitra also cites a book, so the question is now what is the quality of the books cited. My guess is that Pabitra cites Krause and Mishler (same publisher as Pick, a catalogue you will be familiar with.) That is a coin catalogue, not a book on languages. I would have more faith in a book on languages when the question is about language.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

THCoins

Here the entry in the classical Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English dictionary.
It seems that "Saka" originally was a referral to the Saka era, but over the centuries got generalized as synonymous for era.