Author Topic: Nine bob note  (Read 6697 times)

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Offline Nicolas Travers

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Nine bob note
« on: November 29, 2013, 08:24:34 PM »
I have a nine shilling note, copied from a 1919 ten shilling Bradbury note. It is exactly the same as the Bradbury note, except that the value has been changed from ten shillings to nine shillings, and the signature of the Secretary to the Treasury has been changed from John Bradbury to John Cadbury. Pam West, the leading British bank note expert, wrongly attributed this note to the printer of the Only Fools and Horses spoof notes when she included a picture of the nine shilling note in her British Notes blog in lieu of the correct Fools and Horses note. (She was reprinting a letter from Alan Hartley, author of 'Funny Money'). However I think the note was created shortly after the issue of the ten shilling note in 1919, possibly as part of the so-called 'Chocolate War' between the Cadbury and Fry chocolate groups. Both robustly proclaimed their Quaker beliefs in honesty and utmost rectitude, but the chocolate war generated some dirty tricks. I think somebody who disliked Cadbury created the nine bob note in a bid to undermine Cadbury's reputation (inferring that Cadbury products offered less than full value). I have been in touch with the archivist at Cadbury, with the Treasury, and with the Bank of England. None could shed any light. Perhaps somebody else knows?

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2013, 11:34:34 PM »
I couldn't think of a better guess ;) If it is too much like the real thing, there's probably a law against it, so a dirty trick would be a reasonable solution. Interesting piece!

Peter
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Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 11:43:55 PM »
This note interests me greatly ...and enviously! First one I have seen or indeed heard of.

I have a web page here devoted to Cocoa related Tokens which I have been collecting and researching for some time.

You can be sure I will be seeking out for any snippet of information regarding this 9/- note.
Malcolm
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Offline <k>

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 05:22:45 PM »
I'm old enough to remember the phrase, "He's as bent as a nine bob note!", meaning "thoroughly corrupt / dishonest".

Offline Ukrainii Pyat

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 03:18:25 AM »
The "Chocolate War" actually occurred in the 19th century and good Quakers would not have had anything to do with having their good name or their competitor's on money.  In fact, Fry's and Cadbury merged their operations in 1919.  These notes like the one above were created in the late 1990s and sold on eBay etc.
Донецк Украина Donets'k Ukraine

Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 03:39:04 AM »
I had a feeling that it might be a later fantasy.

Did you look at my web page? The chocolate war was in full swing in the early 20th century with Sandow's running competitions in 1913/14 but being forced into bankruptcy in 1916.

Rowntree's too ran competitions 1909/12. Tokens and coupons can be seen on my page for these competitions; also other tokens shown of most of the British companies and those for the promotion of the British Empire exhibition in 1924/25.
Malcolm
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Offline Nicolas Travers

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2013, 04:25:27 PM »
I have discovered the origin of the nine shilling note (and perhaps the origin of the expression 'as bent as a nine bob note'). Newport's Bank in Waterford, Ireland, issued nine shilling notes between 1769 and 1820 (one sold for ,125 at auction in 2007). However the bank, the biggest in the south-east of Ireland, failed in June 1820 when William Newport, the owner, committed suicide, leaving holders of some 64,000 in his notes very unhappy. That value would amount to several millions in today's money, hence as bent (or worthless) as a nine bob note. The phrase led to the creation of the Cadbury notes listed above some time between 1916 and 1920. It is possible that they were printed either by some rivals of Cadbury's, or even by German or Soviet authorities seeking to undermine the pound, for the ten shilling note was the note most commonly used at the time. Strangely 'as neat as nine pence' provided a diametrically opposed criterion, representing an expression of good value dating back to the nine pence coins struck in England by Royalist supporters during the Civil War. The Cadbury notes came back as nine shilling Peppermint (instead of Peppiatt) notes during the 1950s.

Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 01:00:35 PM »
This design of 10/- note was first issued 22nd October 1918. [third issue]

The red serial and B prefix on the 9/- Cadbury, as on the second type 10/-, suggest late 1919 as the earliest possible date.

Warren Fisher replaced Bradbury late in 1919 but the notes of course could have been copied later, but this lets out the German or Soviet authorities seeking to undermine the pound as the 9/- notes would have been issued after the war had ended.
Malcolm
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Offline Nicolas Travers

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 05:11:20 PM »
Well, perhaps not German. But the Russians very possibly, given that the Communist International, or Comintern, was particularly incensed by the use of British troops to support White forces at Archangel and Baku.

Offline andyg

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 08:57:18 PM »
I took the liberty of asking a banknote dealer about these today,
Mark Ray (he has a retail premises http://www.collectorsworld-nottingham.com/)

He tells me that these first came onto the market 5 to 10 years ago, in vast quantities.
He's convinced they were made around that time - he has some for sale - all with the same prefix as the note shown in this thread.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 10:16:59 PM »
If he has a few then that would confirm a later date as they would be rare today if genuine. That agrees too with the information from Ukrainii Pyat above.

I should perhaps find one to put on my page with this information.
Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 07:18:58 AM »


About a month or so ago I came across this thread again and got around to asking the above-mentioned dealer about these notes and ended up with his last one.

It arrived today and is in mint condition which pleased me greatly.   :thumbsup:
Malcolm
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Offline bagerap

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 05:39:28 PM »
This note probably belongs in this thread. Hand drawn and painted in 1924 by 13 year old Martin Sullivan


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 07:19:52 PM »
Cute :). He didn't want to be 13, it seems ... :D

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Nine bob note
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 10:57:25 PM »
I wonder what became of him...
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.