Author Topic: Collecting Euro Coins  (Read 6624 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 01:34:38 PM »
Those starter kits of Monaco go a long way to explain what I have seen offered. Thanks, Gérard!

@Ken, if you collect US coins, there's no pressing need to have the date sets, unless you want to have them. If you collect UK coins, nothing forces you to include a denomination over two pounds. So it is with euros. If you want to exclude the trivial three (maybe to become the foul four when Andorra starts spouting euros), why not? Personally, I'd rather indulge in "silver" 5 and 10 euro pieces and suchlike I can get at face, than pay a whole lot more for sets I can't even touch.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline kena

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 01:54:03 PM »
Thanks for all of the information.

So I know B.E. as Proof.

The starter kits look very neat.

"Silver" 5 and 10 euro pieces at face?  Now those sound interesting.   Sounds similar to $20 pieces that Canada has done.

There are many people in the US who collect by Type rather than Date in the US.

But even collecting my Type can be confusing since for example:

Do you collect one state quarter and one parks quarter for your Type set or do you need each different reverse?  Same with the President and Native American dollar series.  Since on one, the person on the front changes and on the other the reverse changes.

You are quite correct about UK coins.....1 pence to £2 is what I consider to be the standard set.  I just add any £5 which I can obtain for £5 or a bit more.

Are Monaco, San Marino, and the Vactian the trival three?

Ken

Offline gerard974

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2012, 02:07:39 PM »
Maybee my explication is no good
in a starter kit is just circulation coins
4 X 2 euros coin
3 X 1 euro coin
4 X 50 cent coin
7 X 20 cent coin
4 X 10 cent coin
5 X 5 cent coin
7 X 2 cent coin
6 X 1 cent coin
For a total 100 francs =15.24 euros
Best regards  Gerard

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »
"Silver" 5 and 10 euro pieces at face?  Now those sound interesting.

Christian can be much more precise on those. They are/were issued by Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain, I believe, mostly annually, sometimes there were multiple issues in one year. Portugal and Spain added other denominations, ranging from 1-1/2 euro to 12 euros. The silver bubble has diminished the amount of silver put in the more recent issues and Austria switched to bronze.

Dealers don't carry them very often, presumably the margin is not to their liking. If you find trading partners and have something for them too, it is not unusual to get them close to face plus postage.

Are Monaco, San Marino, and the Vactian the trival three?

They certainly are, but if you collect them, they become the troublesome three :)

I was hoping in 2002 to get a couple of sets of the vatican euros, one to gift to my grand aunt who is a nun based in Mysore. Unfortunately, the sets were simply too hard to get...let alone the sky rocket price at the time.

She'll be just as happy with a set of pre-euro coins, which will cost only a tiny fraction of a post-euro set. I saw some of them for sale at the Vatican post office at the original issue price a few years back. The sets I see most are from the 50s.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 05:38:09 PM »
They are/were issued by Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain, I believe, mostly annually, sometimes there were multiple issues in one year. Portugal and Spain added other denominations, ranging from 1-1/2 euro to 12 euros. The silver bubble has diminished the amount of silver put in the more recent issues and Austria switched to bronze.

The "DACH" (roof) countries for example - Germany, Austria, Switzerland - all used to issue silver pieces at face until last year. They stopped doing that, due to the silver price hike. Portugal and the Netherlands do not do it any more either; France does it (with silver and gold coins) from time to time; Spain raised the face value as far as I know. Two caveats though:

* Of course the face value - at least on the date of issue - is above the "precious" metal value. Sometimes even way higher.
* All those silver and gold euro pieces (well, the Swiss one are in francs :) ) are collector coins. This forum is about circulation coins and circulating commems; those euro collector pieces are legal tender in the issuing member state only and "worthless" as a means of payment anywhere else in the euro area.

Christian

Offline Tom0000

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »
Ok, you can collect only coins from 17 countries , ignoring 3 ... but what will you do if the coins ... from Slovenia the minter will not issue for circulation and will sell only in BU ... one year, second , third . Will you agree for big hole in the collection or you will buy expensive BU ?
If you will decide to buy ... why not buy the coins from Vatican, SM and Monaco ? This is the same situation.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 06:49:13 PM »
If you collect euro coins "by year", you will run into the same problem with the coins from other euro countries. For example, not a single German 10 or 50 cent coin has been issued for circulation since 2004. In order to get those dated 2005 or later (and thus any piece with the 2007-today map), you need to buy a set. Now if you collect "by type" only, that is not a big deal in the case of Germany - there are only two (old map, new map) for the circulation coins.

Yes, of course you may say that coins from, say, Malta are about as difficult to get as those from San Marino. Whether you "exclude" the three (MC, SM, VA) or not, is up to you - to every collector. It's just that these three (and, as from next year, Andorra too) are euro coin issuers but not EU member states. Contrary to the 17 members, they issue coins based on monetary agreements. So if you want to collect euro coins but reduce the number euro countries to collect, those three/four would be the first to leave out.

But you might as well say that you only collect those euro denominations that have actually been issued for circulation. Or collect them only from countries where the eight coins have at least two or three different designs. Or ... well, there are no rules. ;)

Christian

Offline Tom0000

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2012, 04:11:55 PM »
I can suggest try collect euro sets if something is changing on the national side of coins (except year digits but including mint/minter marks). It is reducing numbers of sets much. The result is a full history of euro coins. I am doing  it this way.


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2012, 08:10:47 PM »
Euro coins are a bit of a trap for collectors. The common side is a nice link between series and the number of countries was not too large at first. Many people got lured into collecting euro coins when they were first issued. The key coins were the small values of Finland, because they didn't circulate and the key decision was whether to include the muppet countries, San Marino (not too difficult), Monaco (difficult) and Vatican (difficult and expensive). A few countries (France, Germany, Greece, Netherlands) used mintmarks or mintmaster marks. That was it.

When the first 5 and 10 euro coins were issued, casual collectors often stopped. France and Austria overdid it and others, like Ireland, are quite difficult to get. There was a group of collectors ignoring them, a group wanting them and a group buying some, because of their design or because of their country.

The commemorative 2 euros made another wave of people who stopped collecting, even more because because there were also common issues. New euro countries became one more hurdle to take, as some of them had small and faraway economies.

Decisions taken in the early years now haunt collectors. Those who decided to include the muppets are now bankrupt and facing yet another one: Andorra. Those who wanted silver and gold must have cut down severely on what they collect in the face of a coin diarrhea from some countries. Those who included mint marks and mint master marks "need" more and more of the same. Even those who did none of the above were hit by chicanery exemplified by Belgium, where just about every year they managed to change something.

At some point, the euro issuers will kill the goose with the golden egg. Euro coin collecting has gone from easygoing to deciding what not to get, from checking change to shovelling out money, from fun to frustration. There's no need for euro coins to become static, like Switzerland or the US, but there's no need for these enormous emission programmes either. Could we have some middle of the road normalcy, please?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2012, 12:26:30 AM »
When the first 5 and 10 euro coins were issued, casual collectors often stopped.

While I do think it was a big mistake to create a common currency and at the time introduce "regional" euro coins such as those €5 and €10 pieces, the timing cannot have been the problem. ;) The euro cash was first issued to the general public in mid-December 2001. That money became legal tender on 1 January 2002. Twenty-two days later the first German collector coin came out, less than two weeks after that there were the first Dutch pieces. So casual collectors stopped that quickly? Hmm. Granted, some euro countries issue way too many collector coins. Well, since the collector coins from 19 of the 20 euro countries are not even legal tender here, I am not interested in getting complete collections of those but simply pick what I like or find interesting.

Yes, fewer people collect euro coins these days. Surprise , there is no novelty effect. Also, I have read a few times now that collecting in general may soon be a thing of the past. OK, that is an exaggeration but you get my idea ...

Christian

Offline Tom0000

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2012, 03:34:57 PM »
When the first 5 and 10 euro coins were issued, casual collectors often stopped.
Do you think 1c , 2c ... 2E of one country and 1c and 2 c of second ? Or maybe the same coin by one country every year by 5 - 10 years ? ;)
Casual collectors is every person on the street :) It is not true collector .

France and Austria overdid it and others, like Ireland, are quite difficult to get.
I do not understood where is the difficult. No problem to find each of this coin .

The commemorative 2 euros made another wave of people who stopped collecting, even more because because there were also common issues.
Do you think 3 common issues to this day is a reason to stop collecting by someone ? Strange think.

New euro countries became one more hurdle to take, as some of them had small and faraway economies.
I do not understand the connection between faraway economies and collecting coins from , but "hurdle to take" is good. If all will be ease and cheap to take, collecting will not make a fun.

Those who included mint marks and mint master marks "need" more and more of the same.
? This year collector can add only one set to the collection : Slovenia - mint change. But because no mintmark will be used on new coins and on old coins , 2012 year can be a year without adding any euro set to the collection. Is this many ? If collector will have to add 2 sets next year , will it be many ? This is a little as I can say boring.

Even those who did none of the above were hit by chicanery exemplified by Belgium, where just about every year they managed to change something.
This is the best. It should never repeat in future and keeping all changed to this moment will be valuable if from 2011 to 2030 you will not see any change. Like SV , it will never come back and this set from 2005 is unique.

At some point, the euro issuers will kill the goose with the golden egg. Euro coin collecting has gone from easygoing to deciding what not to get, from checking change to shovelling out money, from fun to frustration. There's no need for euro coins to become static, like Switzerland or the US, but there's no need for these enormous emission programmes either. Could we have some middle of the road normalcy, please?
Wrong. You can collect everything , but you will not collect many ( no time, money, space ... ) . This is a core of collecting- good selecting your collecting interest .
You have to decide what you want. Many issuers of euro coins are the best in euro coins subject. You have many possibilities. Only you will decide which one you select. Can be something better ?
Do you need only 2E CC , no problem. Only 2E CC Proof , no problem. Both of them , no problem. Only all sets ? Or only some sets , no problem too. Silver or gold collector coin-like coins - you can.

.. but if someone wants to collect only 2E CC standard and exclude V/SM/M ... he will be casual collector in my opinion.

Tom
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 03:51:00 PM by Tom0000 »

Offline Tom0000

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2012, 03:43:18 PM »
While I do think it was a big mistake to create a common currency and at the time introduce "regional" euro coins such as those €5 and €10 pieces, the timing cannot have been the problem. ;)

(Creating a common currency (general) was not a mistake , but introducing it without correct rules and regulations was a mistake.)
I can not agree , that E5, E10, E21/4 was a mistake. Without it noone in Euro zone will be able to issue collector coins.
I do not see any goods in existing only 1c-2E + 2ECC coins on the market and no possibility to issue any others. I am not collecting this any others ... but we can not eliminate all silver and gold coin-like products. Many people is liking valuable frippery ;) Sometimes only the metal value in it can be value in itself.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2012, 03:46:08 PM »
Guess that Peter referred to euro coins as a whole: circulation pieces, commemorative (€2) coins and those regional collector coins. And when it comes to the latter, some countries have indeed issued a plethora of pieces ...

Now as for those coins that are legal tender throughout the currency union, most are not that difficult to obtain (and yes, I do what you do - collect by type only, with few exceptions). And if you focus on the circulation coins, leaving the commems out, it is not even expensive.

Christian

Offline chrisild

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »
(Creating a common currency (general) was not a mistake , but introducing it without correct rules and regulations was a mistake.)

That is what I meant. :) And with regard to coins, I do find it very strange to, on one hand, create a large area where everybody can use the same currency (which for me also means the same cash), and on the other hand let every member state issue its own collector coins which are legal tender in that one member state and nowhere else. For me that is as if, in the DM years of the Federal Republic of Germany, we would have had Mark and Pfennig coins that could be used in the entire republic, and others that are OK in specific states (Länder) only. A silly concept in my opinion.

Yes, had we "standardized" the entire output of collector coins (with precise specifications etc.), that would have made it impossible for the mints to come up with innovations. But heck, what would be so difficult about saying, yes, all euro coins, no matter which country issues them, are legal tender in the euro area? Practically it would still mean that many stores may refuse to accept them (that even happens with "domestic" collector coins), but at least we would not have those "second class" pieces. ;)

Christian

Offline Tom0000

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Re: Collecting Euro Coins
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2012, 08:30:58 AM »
We should have rights to emit local coins (silver and gold). It has a sense to let them be legal coins on the issuer's territory only.
Else , the issuer should be ECB and all collector coins can be legal in all EU.
Each member should be able to create own collector coins. This is historical and ethnic needs. Maybe the coins should be always enough expensive to be never in circulation .
The rights to be in circulation is the only way to separate this product on the big market of many private mints . Without it creating collector coins will have no sense.

No one should buy collector coins for use it in circulation. No shop should accept it. The local banks should. It makes no problem with it and circulation and a fact that these coins are not medals created by someone, but created only by official national mint.

"second class" pieces
It will be a problem only if collector coin will be too much cheap and issued in too much count. We should not fight with the idea but only in real using this idea.
I know, from time to time country is issued many collector coins . I have had heard about it in Austria. There are collector coins in circulation from time to time. I agree it should not occur. But the way to prevent it is not stopping the issue but reduce the overhead.

My country (not euro issuer) sends to circulation ~10 maybe 13 different commemorative 2zl coins each year. This is not collector coin but circulation but not the same like 2E and 2E CC. They have different size , color and material.  Each coin ~1 million items. It adds ~13 millions coins to the circulation. I am receiving 4 these coins to my pocket during the shopping each year and I am removing all from circulation for keep all 4 for myself.
Is 13 millions too big for my country each year ? If it will be 5 millions I will find maybe 1 coin in the circulation during the year.
I think, if it will be 26 millions it will not be a problem too, but more can make the remaining commemorative coins in the circulation. Each country has to good calculate this value.
If this coin will the same like 2zl circulation I will not see any problem to stay this coin in circulation for ever.
The other good thing to see from time to time not standard coin in the circulation is generating new collectors. If someone is removing not standard coin from circulation for keep it for himself, maybe one day this person find it interesting and start collecting not only coins found in circulation but swapping with others or buying in UNC state ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 08:57:43 AM by Tom0000 »