Author Topic: Denmark, Poland and Iceland  (Read 13364 times)

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Offline chrisild

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 09:12:51 AM »
Thank you for not asking "what have you guys been smoking?" ;) And yes, that is the tailfin of a whale. Sure, this is just a private design "suggestion" published in the September bulletin of a major French coin dealer (CGB), along with the article "Islande, UE et euro : un cas d’école ?". Seems that for the national side they used the ring of a Spanish €2 coin - and that ring will actually be modified on future issues. (By the way, the recommendations you mentioned come from the European Commission, not the ECB.) What Figleaf wrote about the map was about Iceland's location on the common side, I think - currently Iceland is not on that map. So when, or rather if, Iceland becomes an EU member state, the map of Europe would have to be modified again.

Christian

Offline Miguel.mateo

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2009, 12:27:07 PM »
Christian,

I have been for a while away from the forum, i honestly thought you were looking at a link that changed or removed from the forum, since I saw maps, exports, mariguana ;) You mentioned about what the article says and i saw no article ...  I was unsure we were looking at the same image.

Regards,
Miguel

PS. ECB, European Commision, European Council ... so confusing!

Offline chrisild

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2009, 01:31:04 PM »
I have been for a while away from the forum

Indeed - nice to have you back! Must admit that, especially in summer when lots of people go on vacation, I don't really notice "absences" a lot. That usually comes after a much longer while, or when I expect to get coins from another member, hehe.

Here is the link to the original article (in French): http://www.cgb.fr/bn/pdf/bn067.pdf  (The Iceland story is on page 10.) The "problem" with Iceland is, as you may know, that most people there would like to have the euro - but many of them do not want their country to be in the EU. The Icelandic government has officially begun membership negotiations with the European Union (see here) but those may take a while, and then be subject to a referendum in Iceland, and maybe in some EU countries too. If they all say Yes, then Iceland would join; but it would still take a few (absolute minimum: two) years until the country could introduce the euro.

Quote
PS. ECB, European Commision, European Council ... so confusing!

Please do not assume it's plain and simple for us here. ::) By and large however, the European Central Bank is not involved in coin design questions. The recommendations (regarding the designs) are usually made by the European Commission. And legally they are just that; practically such a recommendation will of course have some weight. Now when it comes to legislation (about material or diameter, or some other legal "framework"), the Commission will make a detailed proposal, and the Council of the EU* will then OK or modify it. Not sure whether the European Parliament is involved in such questions.

* There is a difference between the European Council (where the heads of state/government get together) and the Council of the European Union (where the ministers meet). Not to mention the Council of Europe which is not an EU body anyway ... All this is not terribly important when it comes to coin designs; it's just that this is not the ECB's business. And in this particular case of the "whale design", no EU body was involved - just somebody in France who did a neat Photoshop job. ;)

Christian
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 01:50:41 PM by chrisild »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2010, 01:24:32 PM »
As far as Denmark is concerned, I was somewhat surprised to read that the Danish government has not silently taken that issue off the agenda: Last weekend the Venstre MP Michael Aastrup Jensen (Venstre is the biggest party in the government coalition) said that the next elections, originally scheduled for November 2011, may be late this year or early next year instead. And some time after the election there could be, according to what he said, a new euro referendum in Denmark.

As for what the outcome will be, keep in mind that the Danish krone is already in the exchange rate mechanism. And while the default fluctuation band in ERM-II is +/- 15 percent, Denmark has a much narrower band, only +/- 2.25 percent. That may be a reason to say "let's take the last step as well, and get in", or to say "the exchange rate is pretty stable, and that is all we want". Who knows.

Forget about the other two mentioned in the topic title. Estonia is very likely to be "in" as from 1 January, but all the other member states that theoretically need to introduce the euro, including Poland, may get in between 2015 and 2020. Or even later. And Iceland is not even an EU member state. Having the smallest "independent" currency in the world may not be very attractive, but for some reason they may not find the EU and the euro that convincing either. ;)

Christian

Online Figleaf

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2010, 01:56:56 PM »
It may be politically clumsy to talk about accession to the euro now, but - in spite of all the hype - economically, the decision (if there was one) is sound. As you may have noticed, I am not particularly impressed by the joint intelligence of currency traders. To think that a Greek default would hurt anything other than Greece is deluded (wishful?) thinking. To think that the euro area will fall apart is the job of sensation journalists in the class of "one-armed bandit rapes extra-terrestrial pink elephant". To believe that Spain is a problem, while it has already passed the deepest point of the crisis and is out of its recession is ludicrous. To think that a guarantee package for weak euro countries (with plenty of strings attached) increases the risk on the euro is beyond belief. Let's hope these hopping madmen will take large short positions on the euro and be hit where it hurts. Lets hope they don't work for whichever bank we put our money in.

Meanwhile, if Denmark does decide to accede, I don't think there's anything that can be put in their way. Of course, that's different for Iceland, which is the leader of the opportunistic class of potential candidates. These countries wouldn't contribute to the further development of the euro institutions, so it's better to do that without them.

Speaking of which, Barroso wants the EU to have a say in government budgets and big financing institutions from banks and insurers to pension funds. Logical enough, but I don't think the time is ripe. Ministries of Finance are notoriously stick-in-the-mud, especially when it comes to their own power. With a bit of luck, there'll be better consultation and co-ordination, though. That would cost little and help everyone.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 04:22:42 PM »
According to "EU Observer", a euroskeptic news site, there may be a referendum in Denmark fairly soon. One of the primary purposes seems to be that, with Denmark in the boat, French and German plans could be countered better ... ::) http://euobserver.com/9/31912  Anyway, "The referendum may take place before the summer". Have not seen any information about how long a new "No" will last.

Christian

Online Figleaf

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 05:40:24 PM »
As Christian said before in this thread:

In Denmark, Anders Fogh Rasmussen has repeatedly said there would be another referendum about the introduction of the euro. And while his (pro-euro) government initially wanted it to be fairly soon, they now aim at 2011. (At least that is what he said on Thursday.)

All they have is a loose remark, but the remark was made by a PM, who should know what to say and what not to say. Maybe a trial balloon, to see how the backbenchers will react? If there's an outcry he can still blame the journalists and claim to have been quoted "out of context".

Verhofstadt is of course irrelevant. Nevertheless, the reasoning of being outside but expected to accept what has been decided is sound. Danes are pretty conservative, so the "counterweight" theory makes some sense, except that the Denmark's counterweight is not too heavy. Monitor, but don't react, I think.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Denmark, Poland and Iceland
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 07:19:00 PM »
Verhofstadt's views are indeed not relevant when it comes to what Denmark will do regarding its opt-outs. I just noticed that on this very day he also wrote a comment, along with Jacques Delors and Romano Prodi, in the Financial Times. See http://www.alde.eu/press/press-and-release-news/press-release/article/europe-needs-a-community-act-for-economic-convergence-and-governance-37185/

So I guess Verhofstadt and Løkke Rasmussen talked about what to do regarding the future of the euro, and the Danish prime minister said, sorry, we are not involved. ;)  One important issue that, as the article suggests, may influence the timing is the Danish presidency next year. Denmark has been in this somewhat strange position for years, with a krone that is basically a euro in disguise. So on one hand any decision regarding the European currency affects Denmark too, but the country is not involved in what decisions are made. That is probably why Løkke Rasmussen wants the referendum pretty soon.

(And then maybe another one in 2022.)

Christian