Author Topic: Chainpur  (Read 1240 times)

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akona20

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Chainpur
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:17:16 AM »
There has been some discussion in various places about a new Akbar mint of Chainpur. I am still not 100% convinced of the reading but I will have the opportunity to view a coin in a few weeks.

The location is apparently still not settled and it is suggested it is the Bairata mint (Bairat) area.

However a review of copper mine information that is being worked on by our mapping group headed by Nirmal Kimar rather places it in the Burhanpur copper region. I have the coordinates of the mine area but need some further mapping work done to place it exactly.

Offline asm

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 11:54:25 AM »
Just details of how the mint name has been read and its location. As Shailen Bhandare says, it is near Chittor ......so near Burhanpur than Bairata.

Shailen Bhandare: Ah, so this too is clearly Chainpur and not Ujjainpur! Also has an 'ain' above Nuhsad similar to Ahmedabad coins.
Sandeep Nijasure: Dr. Shailen Bhandare sir - I think this coin if you look carefully it can be Jiyanpur or Jainpur or Jianpur which is also principal town and Nagar Panchayat in Azamgadh district of UP which is not far away from Gorakhpur (Approx 90 km). The reason I am attributing is there is only one Nukta (Dot) visible just below "Jim" (not "Che" as I am thinking) and I suppose its the most right hand side Nukta based on its placement. Despite of having sufficient place to the left hand side of only 1 Nukta and just above dotted border, not a single Nukta or remnant of Nukta's are visible which stimulates me to think its as Jiyanpur rather than Chainpur i.e. Je rather than Che.
Sandeep Nijasure: جین پور and چین پور
Shailen Bhandare: Sandeep Nijasure I agree that there is only one dot visible below the 'jim' - but as I have commented before, one has to take into account the economic, historical and political contexts before ascertaining what the reading of a mint-name is. This is because Farsi orthography can often present different phonetic readings for the same letter combinations and add to this the fact that coins offer comparatively small and limited space for engraving. Jainpr or Jianpur is surely 'readable' but can it be substantiated on these grounds? Why should there be a mint there? What was happening there in AH977? etc etc. Also, one ha to consider the numismatic conetx as well. If this is indeed Jianpur near Gorakhpur then why don't we find coins of Gorakhpur in the same type?
It is always easy to with the way Farsi letters are engraved to come up with different 'new' mints - in case of Akbar's coper coins this has happened over and over again. We have several 'imaginary' mints, I give a short list of some here:
1. 'Jalalnagar' - Khilafat Agra
2. 'Kalinjar Jejakbhukti' - DK Muhammadabad Kalpi
3. 'Katak Banaras' - an imitation
4. 'Ghorband' - Gobindpur slightly mis-engraved
5. 'Meerat' - Mertah
Paul Stevens: Do we know where CHAINOUR is?
Shailen Bhandare: Paul Stevens Chainpur (so I seem to recall from Atlas of Mughal Empire by Irfan Habib) is located somewhere near Chitor and had copper mines in its vicinity.
Sandeep Nijasure: Wow, thanks a lot Guruji for the most valid and acceptable answer which is why we are looking at you.



More on another coin:


Shailen Bhandare This configuration of obv legend is only seen in Ujjainpur (some read it as 'Chainpur') mint - so coin of this mint.

Stan Goron Where is Chainpur? Does that mean that an initial alif is never visible on these coins?

Shailen Bhandare I believe there is a Chainpur in the copper-producing belt around Chitor. And yes, I have not (yet) seen a coin of this type which shows a clear Alif. There are other coins of 'Ujjainpur' where it is seen clearly.


This discussion seems to clearly show that there are some types of coins with the mint name Ujjainpur (with the first Alif visible while on this and similar coins (or coins with similar ledend and type) the Alif has never been found leading to the conclusion of Chainpur.......

Amit
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akona20

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 12:00:18 PM »
Yes I have seen that discussion and I am now in discussions with Shailen elsewhere. perhaps it will end with disagreement but I have sufficient evidence to support my case.

Offline asm

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 12:02:56 PM »
Good to note of constructive discussions even if they end in disagreement. As Shailen has very often mentioned: We can agree to disagree........

Amit

PS: I have modified the earlier post and have added some more.
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

akona20

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 12:07:53 PM »
I have also noting the shifting grounds here about whether or not Chainpur is really a mint. It was trumpeted but some have been somewhat sceptical.

Offline asm

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 12:13:07 PM »
Interesting times ahead..........specially considering the hoards of varieties being posted on FB for each mint...... I think most references till now will have to be junked...... (SCWC, Liddle ....)

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

akona20

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 12:21:54 PM »
we are always beset with problems of new findings in any research. I am somewhat dismayed by the negative comments made about Liddle's work. gentlemen should know better.

You write about what is evident. The game of negative talk about formally published works is tiresome and credits no one. any work is obsolete when printed but thankfully with a great team and modern techniques new findings can be published quickly. The more information available the more finds will become evident when knowledge is shared.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 01:07:22 PM »
Chainpur is located 74+ 25+ in Rajasthan. On the maps of Irfan Habib's Mughal Atlas is marked with a copper mine, similar to Kotri which is located slightly S.E of it. Recently coins of Jahangir of this mint were identified as such.
Liddle had them listed as Deogiri (p.208), but after lengthy discussions it has been proved that the mint name must be Kotri. A new mint.
As copper coins were often produced near the place from where the copper ore comes. Similar to Narnaul, Singhana, Bairata, Udaipur, Dogaon, etc. It is very likely that coins with clear Chainpur will be identified. There are plenty coins attributed to Ujjainpur. So far all show the left part of the mint name on the coin. We need to find coins which show more completely the beginning part of the mint name.

akona20

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 01:26:45 PM »
At this time I have looked at that but suggest 21 degrees 48 and 76 degrees 43. Noted as a major staging journey point and a copper area.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 03:35:54 PM »
Arthur, the place you located is just north of Burhanpur. The place Chainpur referred to above is in Rajasthan, South of Ajmer on the Aravalli range.

akona20

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Re: Chainpur
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 10:38:08 PM »
We have a difference of opinion and now a firm (hopefully) research link for some testing. But there is some way to go in this.

I am almost hoping I will prove myself wrong.