Author Topic: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)  (Read 34218 times)

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Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 10:23:08 AM »
Practically ... hmm, it may well be the mint which says, hello government, we would really really like to issue this and that coin, and it will be good for budget too. ;)

I do agree that in reality, you are absolutely right in most of the cases although it does not make sound economics.
Many times, the politicians are intelligent and do not fall to this "buddy is right" syndrome.
Otherwise, why did Sweden close down its mint or Belgium cancel its "Centenary of Flanders Cycling race" commemorative 2 Euro, despite its mint making consistent losses.


Furthermore, I'm not clear what the point of a US commemorative for the start of the First World War is.

I think that was clearly explained in reply #3. It is homage to veterans of first world war and issue is of 2014 may be either pure coincidence or 1914 is so deeply connected with WW I.


From the discussion it appears that USA and Canada are always remember wars. To some extent, it may be true since they have very active veterans departments.
Canada is remembering Battle of Somme's 97th Anniversary.
 See

http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/celebrate/canada-day/calendar-events/97th-anniversary-of-battle-of-somme-battle-of-beaumont-hamel

On the other hand, USA is remembering Gettysburg Battle on its 150th Ann.
See
http://www.gettysburgreenactment.com/reenactors/event-schedule/

In Europe too, I have seen enactment of Battle of Waterloo as well as D day (Normandy) being  actively remembered.

Offline <k>

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2013, 08:20:15 PM »
If you're going to put whatever global events you like, however worthy of commemoration, on your coins, where do you stop?

I would stop with a "Demise of the Dictators" set: Saddam Hussein being hanged, Gaddafi being beaten to death, Nicolae Ceaușescu and his wife being executed, or President Doe of Liberia having his ears, etc., cut off. No, I'd stop before that in fact. But we haven't got there yet. Nothing tasteless about a WWI issue, I think.

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2013, 12:43:21 AM »
Nothing tasteless about a WWI issue, I think.

No doubt that some will issue coins that commemorate WW1. Then again one might wonder how much sense it makes to celebrate an armistice/victory that 20 years later resulted in yet another war, with even more "impact" ...

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2013, 01:45:14 AM »
No doubt that some will issue coins that commemorate WW1. Then again one might wonder how much sense it makes to celebrate an armistice/victory that 20 years later resulted in yet another war, with even more "impact" ...

Christian

Depends whether you commemorate the losses on all sides, or "celebrate victory". WW2 ended with the atom bomb, which has insured against any future world war - so far. And perhaps it's the reason many of us Europeans are here. Consider that your father and mother had to be in a certain place at a certain time for you to be born. WW2 caused so much disruption, that many Europeans would not have met otherwise, or else been in a different place had that war not happened. So which would you prefer: no WW2 and no you, or a horrific war and you get to exist?  :-\

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2013, 11:59:30 AM »
Now that I don't quite understand. This topic is about WW1, and I wrote about the turn that "history" took at and after its end. Back in 1918, the winners of the armistice ;) may have thought that the cruelties of that war would make such wars impossible in the future. Well, less than fifteen years later that hope was severely damaged, and it ultimately ended another five or six years later.

That is why I think that commemorating the 1914-18 war on coins is somewhat strange. After WW2 quite a few things worked out differently, partly because of fortunate coincidences but primarily due to deliberate decisions. Let's talk about those future coins in the early 2040s ... and focus on coins that will commemorate 1918.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2013, 12:48:29 PM »
Now that I don't quite understand. This topic is about WW1

Well, you mentioned how WW1 led to WW2, and so...  But I don't expect to be around for the 2040s. It's quite possible to commemorate the dead on all sides, who were led into this "war of the cousins", without "celebrating victory".
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 01:16:47 PM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2013, 01:36:00 PM »
Well, you mentioned WW1 how led to WW2, and so...  But I don't expect to be around for the 2040s.

Neither do I, unless some medical miracle happens. ;D  Let's face it, coins usually commemorate "our heroes" or "our victory", not the people who died no matter where they were from. Just ask yourself - how many coins have you seen with an "End of the Vietnam War" or "End of the Second Iraq War" theme? WW2 was the last war that was "universally" considered to have a, hmm, successful end, no matter whether you ask people in the UK, the US, Russia or Germany, just to name these four.

At the end of WW1, however, many decisions were made that, at least in hindsight, were fatal mistakes. For example, the Deutsches Reich did - due to the 1918 revolution - not send the imperial government or the Emperor's generals to the negotiations, but representatives of the post-monarchic Germany. So it was easy for people such as Ludendorff to make that "stab in the back" myth popular in Germany.

On the other hand there were huge reparation demands (which to a large extent had been "inspired" by what the Prussians and their allies had done in 1871), the Belgian-French occupation of the Ruhr Area in 1923-25 ... anyway, my point is, if you commemorate the 1918 centennial, you also celebrate what it brought with it so to say. Veterans associations in some countries will still support the idea of issuing such coins in 2018 because they focus on those who fought and won, not so much on what happened after afterwards. Ah well, at least I am not forced to buy and collect them. ;)

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »
Neither do I, unless some medical miracle happens. ;D

No miracles in 2040 - here's why. "Complex civilisations collapse under the weight of their own complexity" - Joseph Tainter. Resource depletion, diminishing returns on investment, environmental degradation, climate change, food scarcity, drought: Europeans will be busy reacquainting themselves with the human condition in 2040.


WW2 was the last war that was "universally" considered to have a, hmm, successful end, no matter whether you ask people in the UK, the US, Russia or Germany, just to name these four.
What about the Poles, the Lithuanians, the Hungarians, the Czechoslovaks? Did they enjoy the spread of Stalinism across central and Eastern Europe?

Let's face it, coins usually commemorate "our heroes" or "our victory", not the people who died no matter where they were from. Just ask yourself - how many coins have you seen with an "End of the Vietnam War" or "End of the Second Iraq War" theme?

I take your point. Your national history, personal views and politics, will all influence your opinion of any coins with a WW1 theme. So it's been a useful discussion. My own point is that there are far worse things than tasteless coins, and as themes go, this is far from being the most tasteless theme possible.

Ah well, at least I am not forced to buy and collect them. ;)

Precisely. So I'll leave it there.  ;)

Offline FosseWay

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2013, 05:04:42 PM »
I think it's possible to separate the significance of 11 November 1918 from the disaster that was the subsequent settlement (mostly the Treaty of Versailles, but also various other treaties and more minor wars that occurred elsewhere than western Europe - Greece, Turkey, Russia for instance). The centenary of the Armistice is, I think, a fitting subject for a commemorative coin, but only if it is treated from the perspective of remembering those who died - in whatever capacity and from whatever country - and not from the geopolitical perspective.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 09:29:39 AM »
According to the unconfirmed sources, France next  year will issue one of the two €2 commemorative coins with the theme of "70 Years since D-Day". Since this theme is integral part of World War II, there should not be any moral issues with commemorating any event of WW I. May be some event is remembered later in any year between 2015 to 2018.

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2013, 11:31:38 AM »
Like many other countries, France has issued lots of WW2 related coins. In terms of €2 commems, think of the Appel du 18 Juin 1940 issue (in 2010). Then there was the series of D-Day collector coins in 2004 (€1.50, €20, €100), and "Mai 1945" coins in 2005, and an even more comprehensive series in 1994 and 1995. You could also add issues such as the 2007 coins honoring Sousa Mendes. Well, I tried to explain why in my opinion 1918 and 1945 are different, but of course the mints and you don't have to agree with me. ;)

Christian

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2013, 05:58:04 PM »
I tried to explain why in my opinion 1918 and 1945 are different, but of course the mints and you don't have to agree with me. ;)
Christian

Yes, Christian. I understand that in your opinion - both WWs were different. As a matter of fact, most of the members of this group appear to say that coins commemorating a war should not be issued.
I do not have any specific opinion on this subject except that if a circulating commemorative is issued, I should get it, without bothering about the sentiments of the issuing country or opinions of those who oppose it. It is just a matter of national sentiments and interpretation of the words.

Let me take a small example. This is a coins forum, as is evident by its very clear name. However, some of the most senior members as well as moderators, happily clutter the space with notes, stamps etc. Well, it all depends on where to draw the limit. If choice is allowed to be exercised by members themselves, then why have moderators?
Same is about the topic of war on coins. There are no moderators and choice is to be made by the people of that country or the government on their behalf.
Nevertheless, my interest has been aroused on this theme. My first report is from Australia which just issued a war commem coin.
Australia was neither major participant, claims any victory nor remembrance. It just commems Korea War.

I will report more coins on the subject, as and when I come across them. ( You can shift to to a theme topic, if so required)

Your views on the subject are solicited since they enlighten me a lot.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 09:44:16 AM by <k> »

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2013, 09:20:20 AM »
After Australia, it is Canada who is issuing the coin on the subject.
It was released in presence of Korean Ambassador to Canada, Minister of  Veteran's Affairs and President of Veterans Association.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 09:43:42 AM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2013, 10:22:38 AM »
A design like that Canadian one I would have expected on a coin from the early 20th century, or before, but not these days. Ah well, live and learn ...

Christian

Offline Ukrainii Pyat

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2013, 02:34:33 PM »
I'd prefer to see a coin commemorating the end of all wars instead of the start of one.
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