Author Topic: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)  (Read 34110 times)

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Offline Pabitra

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WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« on: June 21, 2013, 08:00:44 PM »
In 2014, the world will see centenary of beginning of the first World War.

There is an active lobby in USA for a commem coin to be issued.

Which countries do you think, will issue any coin on the related subject, next year or next four years?

Offline Figleaf

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 12:22:09 PM »
If they have any sense, they'll wait until 2018.

My guess: Alderney, Cuba, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Jersey, Marshal Islands, North Korea and Tuvalu.

Peter
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
Oops, forgot Ascension and the British Virgin Islands.
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
Jokes apart, this is serious matter. This is what the originator of the proposal has to say

"my name is Rod Gillis and I am the Numismatic Educator at the American Numismatic Association. It was my idea to commemorate the brave soldiers who gave their full measure during the ‘Great War”. To put my idea in reference, I started the process of working towards a commemorative coin a year and a half before Frank Buckles, the last American W.W. I veteran passed away. To be honest, the idea for the coin is to perhaps in some small way remind citizens that the war changed the lives of not only the soldiers but their families and had a profound impact on our world today.
You are right in that there are many people who know or care very little concerning what happened during the years 1917-1918. That does not mean the conflict or the sacrifice was any less important. I was a public school teacher for 15 years and I can tell you that we do not do a particularly good job of explaining the war to youngsters. Perhaps it is because the war was fought “over there” and not on American soil.
I want the coin to honor the men who came back and never left their home again because, as my grandfather said, ” I traveled enough in France to last me a lifetime.” I want the coin to honor the men who suffered from inhaling gas or suffered from shellshock. I want the coin to honor the first soldier who was buried at the Tomb of the Unknown whose name is but known only to God.
This is not a “feel good gesture.” If you knew what other countries are doing to commemorate the dead, you would be ashamed at the little the United States is doing. This coin will be struck to remind all of us that the sacrifices the Doughboys made were no less significant then the brave veterans of the other conflicts in our history."
The person who seconded this proposal had this to say
"Over the last decade, the men and women of today’s Armed Forces have fought gallantry, serving to defend our Nation’s…our world’s interest, whenever and wherever called upon. It’s true, CPL Buckles, F. (1901-2011) (the last surviving American veteran of WW I) has passed. However, that should not diminish the honor and downright gratitude that we, as American owe this great patriot. Furthermore, let us not forget that this was in-fact a World War. Our appreciation must extend equally to all the greats around the world who have, and will continue to follow in a ‘Soldier’s footstep.’

As a U.S. Army veteran of two foreign wars, with 19+ years (1993 – present) of ‘active’ federal service, I challenge each and every one of you to ask yourself, “What can I do to better my people, my Nation, and my world?” Mr. Gillis’ actions are simply an extension of that gratitude. IMO – It’s not simply an honor of WW I veterans as it is an honor of all veterans. Therefore, let me be the first to applaud you Mr. Gillis for your service both as a public school educator and as the current Numismatic Educator at the American Numismatic Association. I look forward to owning one of these gems in the years to come."

paisepagal

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 06:58:53 PM »
Nice Pabitra,
I found it in bad taste to push this topic to frivolous directions.
There are indeed many Indian soldiers buried (many not) and forgotten in distant lands across Europe, the gulf and in south east Asia.
But because they did not fight under the Republic of India flag, we easily forget them and I imagine there are so many families in rural India who don't even have a momento to remember those veterans let alone have the means to trace where they might have fallen.

I doubt India would issue such a coin. But I'm sure many European nations will do so

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 07:12:20 PM »
You are right, PP.
Recently I visited Ypres in Belgium which was one of the major sites in WW I.

I was accompanied by a retired Army Commander from India, who being a former Armoured Corps officer, was keen to visit Flandres fields when the tanks were used for the first time in the world in 1915.
Another friend, who is a chemical engineer, was keen to see the place where the Mustard gas was used as first reported incidence of chemical warfare.

There is a memorial to Indian soldiers who died there and since most of them happen to be from Punjab, every year Sikh citizens of UK come and hold a memorial service there.

The soldiers who laid down their lives, for the flag they were fighting for, are not forgotten, even though we may not agree with the cause for which they fought.

Please remember the commem coins do not commemorate the war but honor the soldiers.

Offline andyg

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 11:17:21 PM »
Celebrating any war be it start or end is bad taste in itself imo.

I do agree we should remember those (on both sides) who didn't survive - not just the soldiers but the civilians who found themselves caught up in whichever conflict, but I question what part commercialised commemorative coins have to play in this.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2013, 11:51:06 PM »
Agreed, andyg. You celebrate peace, not war. However, my guess is the stamped metal pushers will issue whatever whenever without any thought and that's no joke.

Marx and Lenin condemned the first world war as a capitalist plot to sell arms and kill workers. Let's see if the Cubans and North Koreans remember...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline dheer

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 06:34:04 AM »
Issuing coins on such topic would be more on International discussions and agreements, I don't think any country on its own would try and venture out without understanding the sentiments of other nations ... half the nations were part of victory and the other half not ... and today in non polorized world not everyone maybe happy ... lets wait and watch ...
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Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 07:37:42 PM »
Celebrating any war be it start or end is bad taste in itself imo.

I do agree we should remember those (on both sides) who didn't survive - not just the soldiers but the civilians who found themselves caught up in whichever conflict, but I question what part commercialised commemorative coins have to play in this.

No one celebrates the war itself.
Either the victory in a battle is celebrated ( see Russia coins of 1812 battle victories, 2,5 and 10 Roubles issued last year) or Battle Heroes are remembered ( see Russia 1812 Heroes-2 Roubles issued last year ) OR ( see Canada 1812 Heroes- 25 cents issued last and this year).

Very rarely does a country issue coin where the battle is remembered without any claim of victory. Only example I could find was Gibraltar having issued coins on Operation Torch, a US Army operation in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt etc in 1942. Not having been student of History, I do not know about the degree of involvement of Gibraltar in WWII.

Incidentally, we are discussing coins and not history or wars.

Kindly note that USA has no attachment to 1914 since their participation in WW I was from 1917.

Regarding your specific query "what part commercialised commemorative coins have to play in this", figleaf has very wisely said "An identified coin is a piece of history"

Come to think of it, we can not deny history and wars have been an integral part of the same.

It is said that "History repeats itself". It is wrong. Actually, those who forget history, are condemned to repeat it.

Recently, USA issued coins on its five star Generals ( USA WWII Heroes, issued in 2013); All of them were part of WW II; Had there been no WW II, none of them would have become a five star General. Do the coins commem WW II or the heroes ?

A straight forward question of seeing the glass half empty instead of half full.

Sorry, if I have hurt the feelings on any member but coins remain a powerful medium of educating the new generation about history as well as Geography.

In Flanders, we still celebrate the victory in the Battle of Golden Spurs on July 11 ( a state holiday), even though the losers in the battle in 1302, were from Wallonia, very much a part of Belgium now.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 10:04:18 AM by Pabitra »

paisepagal

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 07:44:01 PM »
This discussion seems to be veering into a Similar direction as the comments on whether one particular Indian coin commemorated a jail or the victims and the importance of that chapter in India's modern history. It was disturbing to say the least some of the comments in that thread

Offline andyg

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 07:57:08 PM »
I think you both missed the point -
It's not the remembrance - but the fact that these coins are issued solely by greedy mints to make a profit out of those who buy them.  This severely undermines any moral argument with regards to their issuance imo.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Pabitra

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 05:04:11 PM »
the fact that these coins are issued solely by greedy mints to make a profit out of those who buy them.  This severely undermines any moral argument with regards to their issuance imo.

The mints do not issue the coins but governments do. In case of all the coins quoted by me, except USA, the coins are circulating commemoratives. In case of USA too, the coins were duly authorized by democratically elected government. That is the logic as far as the subject matter of coins is concerned.

Mints, like all other organisations, exist solely to satisfy the demands of its customers. If collectors do not buy them, they will stop or reduce the production, as was done by US mint for presidential Dollars. On the other hand, as far as number of coins are concerned, the demand has now dictated that in EU every country can issue two commemorative coins per year. This is despite the fact that many countries like Austria, Netherlands etc. were not even availing the single opportunity. Now countries like Luxembourg etc. are enjoying enhanced number as well two designs option. Simple logic, the collectors want that.

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« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 06:55:36 PM by Pabitra »

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 07:15:54 PM »
The mints do not issue the coins but governments do.
Legally that is correct. Practically ... hmm, it may well be the mint which says, hello government, we would really really like to issue this and that coin, and it will be good for budget too. ;)

As for "1914" coins, well, there may be some. In terms of surcharged commems, the US seems to issue a lot of military themed pieces (hardly anything else in the past few years), so maybe that is what the collectors want. But yes, they won't have anything next year from what I know. In Europe, there will be some that commemorate battles, I suppose, and then a couple in 2018 ...

Christian

Offline FosseWay

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 07:58:06 PM »
Agreed, andyg. You celebrate peace, not war. However, my guess is the stamped metal pushers will issue whatever whenever without any thought and that's no joke.

Marx and Lenin condemned the first world war as a capitalist plot to sell arms and kill workers. Let's see if the Cubans and North Koreans remember...

Peter

Was a ouija board deployed to elicit Marx's view on the First World War? He died in 1883...  ;)

I think there is a place for a commemorative (not celebratory) coin in 2018. Commemorating the start of a war is a bit odd unless the occasion is significant for other reasons (such as 1776 for the US, rather than 1783 when the war actually ended).

Furthermore, I'm not clear what the point of a US commemorative for the start of the First World War is. The US didn't enter the war until 1917. A country's coinage is one of the most obvious day-to-day public-facing manifestations of its national identity, and events/people commemorated thereon should bear that in mind. If you're going to put whatever global events you like, however worthy of commemoration, on your coins, where do you stop?