Author Topic: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)  (Read 33674 times)

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Offline andyg

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2013, 01:14:08 AM »
MODERATOR'S NOTE:

These posts were split from here.



oh goody, a coin commemorating the beginning of the end, or was that the start of the beginning - or maybe the end of the start.  I guess we can look forward to a few more tasteless issues when next the mint thinks about it's profit margins. 

The only first world war coin should be to remember those who gave so much to the rest of us (of both sides) - and the royal mints profits from the issue should go in their entirety to the British legion (a UK charity for old soldiers)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:41:05 PM by <k> »
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline augsburger

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2013, 01:45:11 AM »
We commemorate Guy Fawkes being killed too. Does anyone get offended?

Offline FosseWay

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2013, 10:08:46 AM »
Guy Fawkes was killed because he attempted to murder a lot of other people, and the standard punishment for that in those days was execution. I don't agree with the death penalty but that doesn't mean there is an equivalence between Guy Fawkes (or any other terrorist or murderer) and the millions of ordinary men on both sides who got sucked into the First World War. I'm with Andrew on this - the only valid commemorative should be one remembering the dead, and the most obvious date to commemorate is 11 November 1918. We didn't, after all, commemorate the start of the Second World War in 1989, 1999 or 2009 on a coin but we did commemorate the peace in 1995 and 2005.

Offline andyg

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2013, 10:15:45 AM »
Fosseway's post appeared as I was typing -

But nevertheless, with Guy Fawkes we are celebrating that he didn't blow up parliament - not what happened to him afterwards.

That's why the celebration is in November, rather than the end of January (when he was hanged)

(If no one has any objections - I'll move the posts from mine onwards into another thread later and leave this topic as the proclamations kindly posted by <k>)
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline augsburger

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2013, 12:38:50 PM »
WW1 changed everything we know. We're not celebrating the beginning of the war with this coin, we're commemorating one of the most important dates in British History. As much as it brought dead and destruction, it brought change, the Empire was on the way down, what we know as Britain today was essentially born in 1914.

You can look at it however you like, there are plenty of reasons to commemorate such a war. Another one is "so we don't forget", however quickly it was forgotten.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2013, 01:07:37 PM »
I would argue that what you say applies to the Napoleonic wars, rather than the first world war and that the British empire kept on taking importance until the US started to make its mark in the 1920s, with no specific turning point.

In terms of military history, the first world war brought some "innovation", like armed aircraft and tanks, but that was nothing compared to the second world war (jet engine, accurate rocketry, atomic bomb). In terms of political and economic history, the first world war had more influence on Russia, Finland, the Baltic states Austria, Hungary, Germany and others than on Britain. By contrast, the Napoleonic wars established Britain as a continental player for the first time since the hundred years' war and established the modern money system.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline augsburger

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2013, 03:15:43 PM »
Yeah, other wars had an impact too. Lots of things do. But in the memory of the people alive today, WW1 and WW2 are the big wars. The ones my Grandfather lived through. The ones that came home rather hard on our memories. I assumed the mint would commemorate the start of WW1, and i assume they will commemorate historic battles of WW1 too. Just because for someone like me, it seems important, for whatever reason.
Other people will look at things in other ways, which is fine too. But then should we be offended they make money out of making coins that commemorate things where people died? I don't think so, not in this case, nor the other military commemoratives they've made.

Offline Bimat

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2013, 04:28:26 PM »
Several WW coins from UK next year...

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,24501.0.html

Aditya
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Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2013, 04:33:16 PM »
Don't think anybody is surprised by the fact that the Royal Mint commemorates the beginning of World War I. And yes, of course there will be more "Great War" coins later, including issuers such as Alderney, Jersey, etc.  However, it may make sense to keep the list of coins that <k> posted, and the discussion about British war coins in general, separate. See this topic: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,22056.0.html Done, thanks! :)

Christian
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:48:59 PM by chrisild »

Offline Ukrainii Pyat

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2013, 10:33:55 PM »
Yeah, other wars had an impact too. Lots of things do. But in the memory of the people alive today, WW1 and WW2 are the big wars. The ones my Grandfather lived through. The ones that came home rather hard on our memories. I assumed the mint would commemorate the start of WW1, and i assume they will commemorate historic battles of WW1 too. Just because for someone like me, it seems important, for whatever reason.
Other people will look at things in other ways, which is fine too. But then should we be offended they make money out of making coins that commemorate things where people died? I don't think so, not in this case, nor the other military commemoratives they've made.

Maybe it is different now that everyone that participated in WWI is now gone.  There still are WWII vets around, saw one just today - but they are getting very old now.  I believe when all WWII vets are gone that the whole truth about that miserable stupid war will not be told anymore.  No country but Poland?(which commemoratives of 2009 are stupid) made coins commemorate the start of that war.  Can you imagine how people would feel if for say - Germany commemorates start of war?  In former USSR we commemorate the hero cities, the victories and the end of war.
Донецк Украина Donets'k Ukraine

Offline augsburger

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2013, 12:32:47 PM »
Quote
Can you imagine how people would feel if for say - Germany commemorates start of war?

I might also expect Germany to commemorate the start of WW1 and WW2. They just commemorated Kristallnacht, it was a bad thing in their history, but the (West) Germans have been forced to recognise the bad since 1945 and have made every effort to not forget, and to fix things so it doesn't happen again. Should they just pretend it didn't happen?

Offline andyg

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2013, 12:42:12 PM »
We seem to be at cross purposes - we should remember not commemorate the atrocities.
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Offline augsburger

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2013, 01:14:32 PM »
Quote
We seem to be at cross purposes - we should remember not commemorate the atrocities.

Well, agreeing isn't always necessary.  ;)

It depends what you mean by "commemorate the atrocities". I'd say glorifying, or celebrating atrocities is not a good thing. However remembering something important that might also have been bad, tragic, even evil, is about telling people that this is not acceptable in the modern world. We forget very easily as human beings, and we repeat mistakes. I'd say that coins are a good medium to get this across.

Offline Prosit

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2013, 01:19:01 PM »
There isn’t a doubt in my mind that WWI and WWII are crises/pivot points in history that created the world we live in today. Not solely but without them the world would be a vastly different place. Is that for good or ill? I don’t posses wisdom enough to know that answer however we have what we have.

In seems to me that when the worst in man comes to the fore there are also tales of the best coming forth as well.

To paraphrase Andyg, we shouldn’t forget or celebrate the atrocities. However maybe we do need reminding of the horror we are capable of...somehow.

If we aspire to be and do better we should celebrate triumphs over war and goodness and great deeds that happen in spite of war without celebrating war.

That is a not so subtle difference that someone driven to market a product may not consider. I can think of no coin that circulated that I won’t collect. There are some few commemoratives I would never collect even if I collected commemoratives.

Offline chrisild

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Re: WW1 Coins in 2014? (and other war commems)
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2013, 01:34:32 PM »
I might also expect Germany to commemorate the start of WW1 and WW2. They just commemorated Kristallnacht, it was a bad thing in their history, but the (West) Germans have been forced to recognise the bad since 1945 and have made every effort to not forget, and to fix things so it doesn't happen again. Should they just pretend it didn't happen?

We do not really celebrate or commemorate wars on our coins. (That is, pieces issued by the Federal Republic of Germany.) As you wrote, this does not translate to forgetting or ignoring history. But I would find it extremely strange if Germany issued coins to remind of the beginning of WW1 or WW2. And no, nothing like that is planned for 2014 here.

In 1994 and 1995 there were coins that commemorated the anniversary of 20 July 1944 and of the destruction of the Frauenkirche in Dresden. The latter might be considered an "end of WW2" coin as the motto on the image side is Mahnung zu Frieden und Versöhnung (call/appeal to peace and reconciliation). So if one wants coins with a WW1 theme in 2014, look at what the Five Eyes will issue. Russia has a whole series too, I think.

November is a "mixed" month in Germany. Just think of 11 Nov which is the anniversary of the 1918 armistice, but (at least in this area) also the start of the Karneval season. 9 Nov is an extremely multifaceted date: The revolution and end of the monarchy in 1918, the Hitler coup in Munich 1923, the Pogrom Night 1938 ("Kristallnacht" is a cynical term that the nazis used), and then ... the opening of the German-German border and of the Berlin Wall 1989.

Remember how in the years of the Deutsches Reich, Prussia issued coins that celebrated the beginning of the Prussian war against Napoleon's France, and how Saxony issued a Battle of Leipzig commem? 100 years before, in 1813, Prussia and its allies (Saxony switched sides shortly before that battle ...) had fought against "the French" -- and one year later they did it again.

Christian