Discussion: Protest against re-issuance of Earlier Issued Commemorative coins

[repindia]

Although I am in favour of restrikes as it gives me an opportunity to build my collection ...
The old collectors are not exactly happy [no I am not talking about dealers/investors, but real collectors] ... for there are quite a few collectors who collect packages [and not just coins] for these bunch, they now have to spending out of their pocket for no ryme or reason ... if they don't do it, there collection is incomplete ... now whether one should collect coins or packages is another debate that is not fully settled ...

The book on proof and mint sets has a new entry for the restruck sets! I guess the authors wanted to promote these as new entities but most collectors do not care. It is due to these entries in reference books that the gullible collector also starts collecting paper packages even if the coins themselves are exactly (well almost) the same!

I think it is the dealers and not the mint who are responsible for the drop in the prices. If only they had not hoarded the sets and artificially raised prices, the mint probably would never have restruck the sets and offered them at the prices they are priced now....in direct competition with them. I think this is a necessary evil and will result in sanitization of the market to some extent.

[paisepagal]

....It is due to these entries in reference books that the gullible collector also starts collecting paper packages even if the coins themselves are exactly (well almost) the same!....[\b]

Interesting you should say that...

[dheer]

In that case, I would request third reich marks and some peace dollars with fancy dates!!!

Regards,

Well the ones with fancy dates are already available on eBay at a steal price 

[repindia]

Interesting you should say that...

I went and checked TO's post and the comparison is only based on one set so in my opinion it not "case closed".

Even for a regular proof set run multiple dies are used and a proper study would be needed to study all different types used in the original strikings and then the restrikes too. You should note that the 1973 Proof Rupee coin has two types of obverse varieties, so were they also re-struck/minted? No!

Anyway coming back to my main point (and even taking into consideration that new dies were made) the differences are so negligible that I don't consider the re-issued coins as a new collectible variety requiring me to buy the extra set.

[zwiggy]

I agree with Repindia. For those, who have purchased the coins earlier, it is a loss. But who missed the earlier issues, it is an opportunity to purchase the coins at a reasonable price (as compared to present market price for the originally issued sets).

BUT, here we are talking about the Legal aspects of reissuing the Commemorative Coins.

As per Merriam - Webster Dictionary, the meaning of Commemorative is " intended as a commemoration; especially : issued in limited quantities for a relatively short period in commemoration of a person, place, or event <a commemorative stamp>"

Even Wikipedia defines Circulating Commemorative as "Circulating commemoratives are intended to be used for commerce, but the design will only be issued for a limited time, is intended to draw some attention to a specific event or person. Examples include the €2 commemorative coins, or U.S. 50 State Quarters."

So, legally, the Commemorative coins are meant to be issued only for a limited period of time.

You say what is ideal and is common sense. But since when did that apply to the real world

Legally wikipedia or any dictionary cannot direct what the Gov of India decides to do with their own coinage. It purely depends on the laws of the Republic of India. I believe their is even no provision to state the date on the coin (so they could theoretically mint 1955 rupees or something- which otherwise do not exist). Legally, this case has really no standing in court.

In the end the percieved value of anything by economic theory includes a factor of the confidence.  IMO, as the Mints of India do this, the confidence drops and it is very possible that the value of these sets not only drops from Rs 45K to Rs 10K (the issue price for a restrike), but even lower. As a collector I would buy these sets - but as an investor (or a dealer) I really would not have the confidence that the Mints would refrain from doing this in the future.

[Pabitra]

Even legally, " issued in limited quantities for a relatively short period" or " for a limited time" would depend on law of the land.

I think, this issue was discussed in great detail in a board meeting of SPMCIL, some time in 2003.

apart of reissue of proof and Unc sets, other matters were
1; Issue of shops in mints and permitting mints to sell coins ( like the mint shop in The Palace, Bangkok, Thailand)

2. To issue 5 Rupees coin for circulation, in stainless steel, which had been released in release functions in Cupro Nickel.

All three proposals went to Law ministry through finance ministry and well vetted and accepted.

The first coin re-minted was S Rupees 1996 International Crop Conference.

So they can not be challenged in Indian Courts.

[dheer]

"The first coin re-minted was S Rupees 1996 International Crop Conference."

My understanding is there was nothing official about it ... anyways this re-stike has been discussed somewhere else on this board.

[paisepagal]

A nice perspective here ...

http://www.indiacoins.org/2013/06/beyond-packaging-restrike-story.html?m=1

[kansal888]

Dear Friends

A Delhi based coin collector filed a writ petition against the Union of India for re-striking earlier proof and unc sets. The writ is being taken up by the Delhi High Court. The High Court is yet to pronounce any final order.

I think the date of next hearing is next week.

Meanwhile, Kolkata Mint has started dispatch of restriked Tukaram Proof/Unc sets.

Few months back Syama Prasad Mookerjee and Sant Tukaram proof sets were being sold at prices of Rs 75k (US$1200). Now they have crashed.

Regards

Sanjay Kansal

[kansal888]

Hi Abhishek

Kolkata mint has started dispatch of Tukaram Restruck Proof & Unc sets. Syama Prasad Mookerjee and and Shastri have to wait for some more weeks.

Meanwhile, today is the date of hearing of a writ petition filed by a Delhi based collector against the restrikes.

[BG]

Protests to a situation start when the situation becomes more difficult to bear. See 'arab spring'. The protest or distaste for restrikes has to start some time and probably now was the time.

Am I collector, business man or a hobbyist. I would like to think all of them. Yes, unabashedly I would like to have some things that are not available for all and every.

Should mints restrike coins? yes, they can. But, if the mints announce them in a different packing and with slight alterations so that they are easily distinguishable from the originals as in KGV 2 mohurs. It will be good (definitely for people like me). If there is no distinction between the original, reissues and restrikes; okay it is the Govt. policy. What will I do, because I can not fight with the establishment, I will collect 'mint errors' as they cannot be reproduced.

BG

[kansal888]

Dear Friends

I understand that the Hon'ble Delhi High court has passed the judgement.

It is understood that the High Court has rejected the writ petition of a Delhi based collector against re-striking of coins.

Regards

Sanjay Kansal

[dheer]

Great news Sanjayji ... hopefully this will motivate the mint to dispatch the sets faster ...

[Figleaf]

Thank you for keeping us informed, Sanjay. I would think that a case like this would revolve around the question of whether the offer to sell a coin above face amounts to a promise to have a single mintage.

My opinion is that it does. When the mint offers coins above face value (which includes packaged sets of coins), there is an implicit assumption from the buyer (perhaps also from the seller) that the offer is a work of art, bought for speculative purposes. This can be seen not only from the propensity of buyers to want several specimen, but also from the seller's tendency to limit the number of specimen that can be bought. Therefore, the items are bought with the expectation of a price rise. Re-striking the item will guarantee a decease in price, though. It undercuts a sales argument that is central to the buyer's motivation to buy. It could be compared to a company issuing  new equity without consent or compensation of old shareholders, which I am sure the court would not condone.

I am not aware of any successful legal action against re-strikes, but I know of a few cases. In one case (West Germany), the re-strike was considered a scandal and the perpetrators were fired. In another (Poland) the re-strike is widely seen as illegal and in the third case (East Germany), the re-strike was classified as secret - even the seller considered the act shameful. I am also aware of Indian mints quite openly re-striking British Indian coins, though.

Peter