Author Topic: Countermarks on Timurid tankas  (Read 2796 times)

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Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« on: May 16, 2014, 06:36:00 AM »
Could you please help with reading the countermarks on these two tankas? Thanks in advance!

Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 10:25:32 AM »
No expert on these, so just a suggestion to check:
On your first coin the square countermark seems to read something like " 'Adl Sultan Mahmud"
The lower four lobed countermark on this same coin looks very much like a Sultan Husayn mark from Herat mint.
On your second coin i can just see the countermark text starting with "Adl", to difficult for me to interpret the rest.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 10:50:30 AM »
No expert on these, so just a suggestion to check:
On your first coin the square countermark seems to read something like " 'Adl Sultan Mahmud"
The lower four lobed countermark on this same coin looks very much like a Sultan Husayn mark from Herat mint.
On your second coin i can just see the countermark text starting with "Adl", to difficult for me to interpret the rest.

Many thanks, dear THC! Just to make it clear -these are 2 cons with obverses and reverses posted consequently.


Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 10:22:35 PM »
On your second coin, the word below "Adl" might be the beginning of "Ya'qub" ? Suggesting, with the shape, this could be a Aq Qoyunlu countermark.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2014, 07:46:26 AM »
Thanks, once again! Colleagues from ZENO  also attributed 2nd coin as Yaqub's: Aq-Qoyunlu, AR tanka, Ya`qub, 894AH c/m on Shahrukh, Ij, 828 AH, and 2nd c/m - Behbud Astarabad.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 07:48:21 AM »
As for the 1st one- turns to  be Timurid, AR tanka, Yadigar Muhammad, host coin Abu Said, Astarabad mint, countermarks: bih bud, bih bud Herat, Adl Sultan Yadigar Muhammad

Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2014, 08:39:57 AM »
Great you have them attributed ! I could not figure out the word before Muhammad. But i am slowly getting better at this ;D

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2014, 11:27:52 AM »
Great you have them attributed ! I could not figure out the word before Muhammad. But i am slowly getting better at this ;D

As for me, Im  still far behind you when it comes to reading Arabic on coins, wish I could dedicate more time on learning :-\
Meanwhile there are 3 more pcs from the same group as previous ones..
#2 seems to have the same combination of c/ms as first coin from my very first post
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:51:40 AM by vaxtankava »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2014, 04:40:29 PM »
This is a totally different kind of sport than i'm used to with these overlapping countermarks.
Agree with you on the second coin with the Herat mint countermark.
On the third coin there's likely a name under "Adl Sultan"but can't make it out. On your last picture there again is a hint of the name of Yaqub. Can't be of more help with these now i'm afraid !

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2014, 03:35:52 PM »
Dear THC, thanks again! you are very helpful! I have some more of c/m pieces, several most interesting are below:
On the 1st the cm is intact and should be easy for an expert to read and the host coin of the 3rd seems to be unusual to me

Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2014, 04:56:40 PM »
In your upper coin of the last series the 8-lobed countermark i think is read from bottom to top: "Adl Sultan Mahmud" and then a word i can't recognize.
On the others seems mostly again the Herat mint countermark.
On the last coin, the part of the text of the host coin i can read is just the Kalima, so won't help to attribute the host.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2014, 06:01:49 PM »
wow! intriguing coins vaxtankava,  8)
Vic

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 06:50:35 PM »
wow! intriguing coins vaxtankava,  8)

Thank you, Dear VIC! I posted them all on ZENO for final ID and THCoin's reading of c/ms was very correct, i am very grateful to him for his time and efforts once again.
For the time being only one coin is left unidentified and seems to be a hard one even for ZENO experts.
The hi-res image is available here: http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=139176&cat=all&ppuser=2164

Offline THCoins

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Re: Countermarks on Timurid tankas
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 08:25:28 PM »
OK, i'll have a go at this last one.
The legend on the side on your right picture must be the kalima with the four just Caliphs around it. No idea of the countermarks.

The layout of the legend of the hostcoin in your left picture could fit with Timurid ruler ShaRukh Ibn Timur ?
The first countermark on this side could again be Yaqub, possibly from Tabriz ?
This is overstruck with the Herat countermark, which appears upside down on this photo.