Author Topic: Difference between trade tokens and coins?  (Read 9229 times)

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BC Numismatics

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2007, 01:07:09 PM »
I think Peter has covered it. The only thing that I would add as way or 'proof', that George III saw the wide spread use of private coinage in the form of the tokens and realized how much money was not being controlled by the government. The 1809 an Act of Parliament was passed requiring issuers of local tokens to meet claims for repayment in bank of England notes. Some of these went from values of farthings to three pence [I have one and it is a substantial lump of copper]. So here we have the government making tokens into defacto currency.  The Birmingham 3 pence is 45 mm diameter x 5 mm thick and weighs 67.9 grams. You would not carry many around with you.


Bruce

Bruce,I've got a few of the Birmingham Workhouse 1d. tokens,2 of the 3d.,& believe it or not,a silver 1/-.

There is a monstrous copper 6d. token,but it is EXTREMELY RARE!

Aidan.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2007, 04:42:51 PM »
Bruce and Peter, that was fun reading. Thank you.  Just two comments come to mind.
1. a pocket full of 3 pence coins with that kind of weight would be deadly to a sailor knocked over board!
2.  I attended a wedding in Eastern Shore Maryland where a local town still takes pride in their role during the 1812 British Invasion. 

The Town That Fooled The British
In the dark morning hours of August 10, 1813, a number of British barges had planned an attack on the town and a fort on the harbor side. The residents of tiny St. Michaels, forewarned, hoisted lanterns to the masts of ships and in the tops of the trees, tricking the British by causing the cannons to overshoot the town. This first "blackout" was effective and only one house was struck. Now known as "The Cannonball House" (A on map) a cannon ball penetrated the roof and rolled down the staircase as Mrs. Merchant carried her infant daughter downstairs. The house still exists as a private residence.


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2007, 12:27:17 AM »
That must have been very early in the campaign. The British fleet sailed from Bermuda and other ports on the first and General Ross' ship, the Tonnant, passed Cape Henry on the entrance of Chesapeake bay on the 11th. Maybe advance elements of the fleet had passed before, but I haven't a clue where St. Michaels is...

There were raids on Nomini and Chaptico and other villages along the coast from the 13th to the 18th. On the 19th, the main force landed at Benedict and started advancing on Washington. Meanwhile, a naval unit sailed up the Patuxtent up to Pig Point, which the reached on the 22nd.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2007, 01:21:01 AM »
I pulled the following from a tourist site for Saint Michaels: 
 
 Saint Michaels, Maryland is a quaint waterfront village on the Eastern Shore, situated on a picturesque peninsula between Tilghman Island, Easton and Oxford, and only a leisurely drive from Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Richmond and New York.

During the War of 1812, St. Michaels staged the first blackout in recorded history. British warships gathered on the Miles River to shell this coveted target. Townspeople darkened their homes and hung lanterns in the treetops to trick the invaders into aiming high. When the shelling ceased, the ploy had worked; only the now-famous Cannonball House was hit. St. Michaels had earned a place in history as the town that fooled the British.

What I didn't down load for St. Michaels was the apple cider statiistics during 1813.  It seems that the good citizens of St. Michaels lived on hard cider so much so that embalming wasn't necessary upon death! But they were an honest God fearing people and if the town reported shelling, either of peas or cannon, surely something must have happened.  If it wasn't the British, it could very well have been someone else.  The next time I'm in St. Michael, I will ask the locals, preferably over a drink.
richie

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2007, 02:21:36 AM »
I have actually sailed to St. Michaels Maryland. Some friends of mine have a sail boat that they keep across the Chesapeake Bay near Annapolis. It was a fun 4 days. James Mitchner was writing his book 'Chesapeake' at the time and living in St. Michaels, and was well known around the town.

  A note about the copper 6 pence piece, there were only 7 made, and never put into circulation. the copper 3 pence was the heaviest  coin put into circulation, and if you have ever handled one, you would understand ! It is 45 mm diameter x 5 mm thick and weighs 67.9 grams, so double that for the 6 pence!

Bruce
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 02:25:45 AM by bruce61813 »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2007, 02:35:29 AM »
 I have actually sailed to St. Michaels Maryland. Some friends of mine have a sail boat that they keep across the Chesapeake Bay near Annapolis. It was a fun 4 days. James Mitchner was writing his book 'Chesapeake' at the time and living in St. Michaels, and was well known around the town.

Bruce,
You made my day!  I feel "homesick" for the Chesapeake Bay thinking about it.  I lived a mile from the Bay for nine years.

And I love thinking about a 70 gram copper too.
richie

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2007, 03:10:07 AM »
I lived in Virginia Beach from 1978 to 1994, and used to sail a lot, that part i miss a lot. Can youimage what the going price of one of those 6 pence pieces would be! talk about a second mortgage.

Bruce

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2007, 03:32:27 AM »
I used to live in Chesapeake Beach, a much smaller place up the bay, from 1977 until 1986.

Six of a kind?  I guess the value depends on the demand, doesn't it?  But I'd think it quite a princely sum.
richie

BC Numismatics

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2007, 03:43:16 AM »
Richie,as seen as there are only 7 examples of the Birmingham Workhouse copper 6d. token known,I don't even think they would be allowed to be exported from Great Britain.This would be due to their historic interest.

Aidan.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2007, 06:42:40 PM »
Aidan,
Any idea of their numismatic value?
richie

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Difference between trade tokens and coins?
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2007, 08:10:44 PM »
Their numismatic value would be almost impossible to estimate. Considering at least one, if not all are in museums and they were never issued. You would have to consider them 'trial strikes' , and values for them are all over the monetary map. there was a silver shilling workhouse token, and it did circulate, it's was rate '20 tokens to the pound' . Those are not seen to often

Bruce