Author Topic: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria  (Read 10750 times)

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Offline Ukrainii Pyat

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 02:04:03 AM »
I have been in both countries, rather surreptisously because I snuck in and out.  Transdnestr is like going back to 1950s USSR, and Moldova not much better.  It is interesting part of world though, my oldest daughter was born in small village near city Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, Belgorod-Dnestrovsky, Cetatea Alba, Akkerman, Tyras or whatever it is called in 2500 years of existence as inhabited place.
Донецк Украина Donets'k Ukraine

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 03:46:59 AM »
Very interesting <K>. The Balkans in general have a very interesting history. Here are a couple of pieces I would like to share if you'll allow. The first is a silver Groschen from Moldavia dating from 1375-1391 AD. I love this piece because it was one the earliest coins issued for the region. The second is a Dukat from Wallachia 1447-1457 AD. The third and forth are from the joint principality of Moldavia & Wallachia. Minted in Sadagura, these coins were struck from the bronze of captured Turkish cannons during the Russo-Turkish War (1768-1774). The last two are from the Principality of Romania and Kingdom of Romania.

MOLDAVIA~AR Groschen 1375-1391 AD


WALLACHIA~AR Dukat 1447-1457 AD


MOLDAVIA & WALLACHIA~1 Para/3 Dengi 1772


MOLDAVIA & WALLACHIA~2 Para/3 Kopek 1773


ROMANIA (PRINCIPALITY)~2 Bani 1867 *Proof*


ROMANIA (KINGDOM)~2 Bani 1900

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 08:23:31 AM »
I was going to post my example of the Moldavia & Wallachia 2 para/3 kopek but yours is much better! On the subject of that coin, why does it read "3 копеекe" rather than "3 копейки"? The latter is correct according to (modern) Russian. (Sorry, I can't figure out how to display a yat sign).

Something I've also wondered is why Moldova didn't reunite with Romania after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Offline <k>

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »

Something I've also wondered is why Moldova didn't reunite with Romania after the fall of the Soviet Union.

The Russians forbade it at first, even though opinion polls in Moldova showed they wanted it. Then when the Russian-backed violence broke out in Transnistria, you can imagine that put the Moldovans off. When Putin came to power in Russia, he said he had nothing against the two countries uniting. However, the longer two entities are apart, the less likely is that they will unite - and they have been apart for over 20 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and even longer before that. Moldova and its people and politicians are now developing their own sense of nationality under democracy, so I expect things will remain as they are.

Over on the other side of Europe, you will find a surprising number of people in the Republic of Ireland who would not want Northern Ireland to merge with them in any circumstances. That's what long-term separation does.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 12:46:31 PM »
Over on the other side of Europe, you will find a surprising number of people in the Republic of Ireland who would not want Northern Ireland to merge with them in any circumstances. That's what long-term separation does.

I'm not sure that's the product of long-term separation in itself. Germany was divided for 40+ years and there was a definite will to reunite, rather than for the GDR to become a new democratic state in its own right. I suspect that if totalitarianism falls in North Korea, the same will happen there. The difference is that in both parts of Germany and Korea the population overwhelmingly thinks of itself as German and Korean respectively. In Northern Ireland there is a substantial group (a majority in NI and a substantial minority in the island as a whole) who do not think of themselves as Irish. Not only do those people (the Unionists) obviously not want a united Ireland, but as you say there are a fair few people in the Republic who do not want to reunite. But the reasons for the latter are different: they either take the moral/ethical view that forcing other people to join a country they don't identify with is fundamentally wrong, or they take the practical view that doing so would entail various social problems that they'd rather avoid, or they hold a mixture of the two.

In the Moldovan context, I suppose my question is whether the Moldovans are overwhelmingly Romanian by ethnicity, language and religion (i.e. Catholic, in this case) or whether there are sizable minorities who are Russian, Ukrainian or whatever, who would not welcome incorporation into a much larger Romanian-dominated state. I don't know enough about the area to answer that.

Offline <k>

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 01:05:42 PM »
Have a look at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldova#Cultural_and_ethnic_composition

At least 75% of the population of the Moldovan-controlled territories (excluding Transnistria) are Moldovan. Around 484,000 are Slav (Russian and Ukrainian) out of a population of 3,383,000 (excluding Transnistria).

According to Wikipedia, around 90% of Moldovans are Orthodox, whilst around half a percent are Catholic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Moldova

As for East/West Germany, a significant number of the younger generation in West Germany (as was) were not interested in reunification. I well remember their complaints about "the Ossis". A friend in the Rhineland complained to me that he found it hard to get his favourite products in the shops after reunification, because there was such an unsatisfied demand for everything from the Ossis. Note that our forum member, chrisild, a great EU-fan, has no great affection for Berliners, etc.

As for Northern Ireland, the Protestants largely do think of themselves as Irish, even if Northern Irish, and proudly so. Most are also proud to be British, though if the British didn't want them, they would be happy to have their own state. They are suspicious and distrustful of the cultural Catholicism of the Republic, but the scandals of the Catholic Church have apparently boosted secularism to an amazing extent in the republic, so that this cultural fear is left with less and less foundation - in fact, it is now hugely outdated. But, yes, there are complexities in the case of the island of Ireland.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 05:25:31 PM by <k> »

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2013, 02:35:46 PM »
I was going to post my example of the Moldavia & Wallachia 2 para/3 kopek but yours is much better! On the subject of that coin, why does it read "3 копеекe" rather than "3 копейки"? The latter is correct according to (modern) Russian. (Sorry, I can't figure out how to display a yat sign).

Something I've also wondered is why Moldova didn't reunite with Romania after the fall of the Soviet Union.

I think the spelling you are referring to might be because the some of the Cyrillic characters that were used here are now obsolete. I had a Russian friend who told me that a few of the characters stopped being used around World War I.

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2013, 02:40:48 PM »
Have a look at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldova#Cultural_and_ethnic_composition

At least 75% of the population of the Moldovan-controlled territories (excluding Transnistria) are Moldovan. Around 484,000 are Slav (Russian and Ukrainian) out of a population of 3,383,000 (excluding Transnistria).

As for East/West Germany, a significant number of the younger generation in West Germany (as was) were not interested in reunification. I well remember their complaints about "the Ossis". A friend in the Rhineland complained to me that he found it hard to get his favourite products in the shops after reunification, because there was such an unsatisfied demand for everything from the Ossis. Note that our forum member, chrisild, a great EU-fan, has no great affection for Berliners, etc.

As for Northern Ireland, the Protestants largely do think of themselves as Irish, even if Northern Irish, and proudly so. Most are also proud to be British, though if the British didn't want them, they would be happy to have their own state. They are suspicious and distrustful of the cultural Catholicism of the Republic, but the scandals of the Catholic Church have apparently boosted secularism to an amazing extent in the republic, so that this cultural fear is left with less and less foundation - in fact, it is now hugely outdated. But, yes, there are complexities in the case of the island of Ireland.

I never realized that about Germany or Ireland. I guess a long separation does have effects like this as you pointed out. That being said, I wonder if Korea will ever reunite? The devision between the two have been really bitter and heated more than Germany ever was. Plus, the economic ramifications of the two uniting would likely be disastrous since North Korea is all but bankrupt.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2013, 03:21:18 PM »
Note that our forum member, chrisild, a great EU-fan, has no great affection for Berliners, etc.

No affection? I do like those jelly filled donut-style balls. :) As for the rest of my reply (which would be OT here) see
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,20234.0.html ...

Christian

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2013, 04:52:15 PM »
I think the spelling you are referring to might be because the some of the Cyrillic characters that were used here are now obsolete. I had a Russian friend who told me that a few of the characters stopped being used around World War I.

That explains the use of the yat letter (ѣ) (Ah! It works this time), which as you say was discontinued in 1918. But on Russian coins from before 1918 the denomination is spelt КОПѢЙКИ for 2 or 3 kopeks, not КОПѢEКѢ as here. The latter using modern Russian letters is КОПEEКE, which is unlike any grammatical ending I'm aware of in Russian. КОПEEК (before 1918 КОПѢEКЪ) is the standard form for 5 or more kopeks and the form on the M&W coin seems to be a peculiar mixture of the two forms.

Offline milkshakespeare

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 04:42:33 PM »
Transnistria introduced its own coinage in 2000. One Transnistrian ruble equals 100 kopecks. The obverse of its coins carries a rather Sovietesque coat of arms, consisting of a hammer and sickle.

The reverse designs of the coins are rather simplistic, with a feather on the lower denominations and a wreath on the higher ones.

I do not know whether the ruble is at par with the Russian version, but I suspect it has a lower value.



The coat of arms is a modified version of that of the Moldavian SSR. The Transnistrian flag is identical to the old MSSR flag.
Transnistrian rouble is actually more expensive than its Russian namesake, slightly less than 15 roubles equals one euro (or aproximately 40 Russian roubles). There will be problems trying to convert your roubles to euros outside the PMR though  ::)

Offline <k>

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 05:59:58 PM »
100 years since the union of Bessarabia with Romania. Does this mean that Romania wants it back?

Image courtesy of Pabitra, who created a massive 258 KB "png" image, so I've slimmed it down beautifully as a "jpg".  8)

Offline chrisild

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Re: Bessarabia, Moldavia, Moldova and Transnistria
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2018, 01:00:10 AM »
Apparently there are a lot of "unionists" in both countries. (DW article in German). On the Centennial Day, about a month ago, the Romanian parliament had a ceremonial act, and a delegation from Moldova, with the president of that country's parliament, attended.

This is also about Russia of course. In WW2 Moldova was split off Romania, and became part of the Soviet Union for about 50 years. Seems there are quite a few people, not just in the breakaway region of Transnistria but also in Moldova, who think that this "re-unification" of Romania and Moldova would not be a good thing.

Christian