Author Topic: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms  (Read 18592 times)

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Offline chrisild

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2009, 12:13:21 PM »
those coins produced by tiny islands where there is no intention for them to circulate

Guess we cannot draw an easy dividing line here. There sure is a difference between "coins" that are produced in the name of some country or sort-of-country which has some kind of agreement with a major coin dealer, and coins that are made and distributed for general circulation. But there is a wide range of products between these two poles. In Euroland there is an obvious distiction between coins that are legal tender in the currency union and those that are not; the latter are called collector coins. The "euroland-wide" coins, circulation or commemorative, would be accepted pretty much anywhere, but that does not mean you can get them all at face ...

What the advocatus diaboli in me finds interesting though is that some collectors detest modern pieces that are not issued for and cannot be found in circulation, and at the same time cherish big old silver pieces that were not issued for and could not be found in circulation. >:D

Christian

Offline Bimat

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2009, 01:22:06 PM »
I have problem with the word 'medal coin'.A medal can't be a coin and a coin can't be a medal.I wonder who discovered this irritating name ::)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 03:59:19 PM by numismatica »
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline chrisild

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2009, 02:18:45 PM »
I have problem with the word 'medal coin'.A medal can't be a coin and a coin can't be a medal.I wonder who discovered this irritating name :))

Can of worms alert. ;) You may come across some WoC members here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Non-circulating_legal_tender&diff=304976875&oldid=304972454

If everybody knew what the fundamental difference between a coin and a medal is, then I would find that term OK. After all, those pseudo-coins have both "coin elements" (issued by a government, legal tender) and "medal elements" (most of what you pay is for the material and design, and the issuer's profit). Problem is that, when somebody asks, how much is my coin worth, and you explain to him that what he has is not a coin but a medal, such a term is not useful at all - on the contrary, it is mostly confusing. Now NCLT sounds a little too technical to me, so I prefer pseudo-coin(s) ...

Christian

Offline Figleaf

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2009, 03:02:41 PM »
Can of sleeping dogs. Let them rest.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Bimat

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2009, 04:16:57 PM »
That means NCLT=Pseudo coin=Medal coin?
Aidan,if some dealer is offering you the 'coins' of Sovereign Military order of Malta,I'm sure you will be interested in getting those so called 'coins',just because Italian Government has recognized it as a independent state (or country?)
Remember the latest issue of so called 2 Pound commemoratives of South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands issued by Pobjoy mint without any permission of Government of SGSSI. SGSSI government has already declared it as an illegal tender.will you be still interested in this coin?
My point is that there are plenty of real coins to collect.And if you are really so interested in these coin like issues,you can have a virtual collection of those :P

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Prosit

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2009, 04:36:19 PM »
Comment:

I have heard it numerous times on this forum that everyone should collect what they want to collect.
On the surface the forum appears to be tolerant but I always sense a lot of intolerance if not hostility toward NCLT
and NCNLT items. 

Weather it is a coin or not a coin can be legimately argued from now on but I don't think
deriding someone's collecting habits or even slight slurs are appropriate.

In this forum we have a section in "Other tokens and medals"   "not used for payments" and the description
even says...receipts...buttons...

Surely if those types are acceptable collectibles to "Numismatists"  NCLT and NCNLT should be no less acceptable.

Dale

Offline a3v1

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2009, 04:55:39 PM »
Dale,
This forum's main problem is not an intolerance with NCLT. But there's someone (I won't mention a name) who doesn't make any difference between NCLT an NCNLT and all other trinkets, calling all of them medal-coins. Which in itself is a contradiction in terms, and rather confusing.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
-------------
Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2009, 05:16:17 PM »
Speaking for myself, I confess to be hostile towards NCLT, as I believe it threatens the hobby, but not towards any numismatic items that are not coins but are (loosely) connected to money or coinage, from trade tokens to play money and from medals to official publications on money in circulation. On the contrary...

As for intolerance, it's one of the few things I don't tolerate.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 05:27:20 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline africancoins

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2009, 07:26:16 PM »
>>>>
Remember the latest issue of so called 2 Pound commemoratives of South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands issued by Pobjoy mint without any permission of Government of SGSSI. SGSSI government has already declared it as an illegal tender.will you be still interested in this coin?
>>>>

Pobjoy neither made nor issued those pieces. They and SGSSI "government" were equally "upset".

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

translateltd

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2009, 08:59:00 PM »
While I don't like grossly abusive NCLT issues (NCNLT even less so), some at least still have their place for those that like them.  Here's an analogy to think about: how many of us read fiction, even though there is more than enough factual information to be read?  Yet fiction sells by the million!  Of course, fiction may give us an escape from reality, and can give us some new angles on interpreting reality, and some is just trash.  Same with NCLT - it's a break from what can sometimes be quite tedious circulating issues, some complement a set of circulating issues nicely (think of the crown pieces added to UK sets in the days when NCLT was a once-in-ten-years arrangement, or the crown-sized "dollars" that adorned NZ's annual coin sets in the 1970s and 1980s) ... and some is just trash.




Offline Prosit

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2009, 03:22:59 AM »
Taken totally out of context:

..........NCLT, as I believe it threatens the hobby.........

I am not convinced of that. 

I would be interested in seeing a listing of 1 2 3 4 5 6.........of how it is a threat
to the coin collector, the coin collecting community or the hobby of collecting coins.

Dale

BC Numismatics

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2009, 05:04:17 AM »
Martin,
  What does 'N.C.N.L.T.' stand for?

Aidan.

Offline Prosit

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2009, 05:25:08 AM »
Non circulating non-legal tender    ;D


Which actually, if you critically define the wording, includes everything
...everything from tricycles to moon shuttles to toilet tissue.
 >:D
Dale

PS. , However it can't include germs because they circulate but it can include germs if the don't circulate and aren't legal tender.  and it can't include coins because they are legal tender except when they aren't and no longer or don't circulate   :P  So coins that were legal tender but are no longer legal tender and coins of any age that no longer circulate are NCNLT if they have been demonitized and maybe if they haven't been.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 05:50:46 AM by dalehall »

Offline Prosit

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2009, 06:21:21 AM »
There are circulating legal tender or CLT.
There are non-circulating Legal Tender or NCLT.
There are circulating non legal tender ot CNLT.
There are non-circulating non-legal tender or NCNLT.

Then there are trade goods used as money such as sea shells, bever pelts, whiskey,
canoe money, axes, knives, beads, pins, mirrors, guns and big rocks with holes in the center and not to mention those hard to get error rocks with no holes in the middle. Opps!  I guess these are
CNLT except the rocks, I don't think the big ones circulated much.

Bullion, it circulated once upon a time and once upon another time it didn't.  It was legal tender except when it wasn't officially declared by the uppity mucks to be legal tender. In some cases the stupid peoples who didn't know any better circulated it anyway.

My friend, at work, the other day traded a auto engine for an upholstry job on his motorhome.  Excellent example of NCNLT working as money.

I collect what I like, don't care if it is a coin or not, no longer care if it is generally accepted as a fit catagory of collectible or not, I am getting tired of hiding my NCNLT collection of pewter wizard figurines.

Dale

Offline Bimat

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2009, 07:41:11 AM »
Pobjoy neither made nor issued those pieces. They and SGSSI "government" were equally "upset".
Then who issued those so called coins,Paul? WBCC mail says that they were issued by PM.
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.