Author Topic: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms  (Read 18734 times)

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translateltd

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NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« on: July 24, 2008, 07:58:30 AM »
You know after reading all of these comments I have to wonder how much money or currency has been made in the "honor" of countries that have never even used it or seen it!

Probably almost all NCLT issues in the name of smaller countries, particularly those with no mints of their own.  Most of the Pacific (excluding Australia and NZ) and Africa, for instance.  Very good grounds for boycotting such "coins"!

Martin
NZ
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 10:35:05 PM by Figleaf »

BC Numismatics

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 10:08:13 AM »
Martin,
  It isn't only the Falkland Islands that is notorious for its medal-coin issues.Both South Georgia & the South Sandwich Islands & the British Antarctic Territory are also following in the same footsteps as both Gibraltar & the Isle of Man as well.

Aidan.

Offline a3v1

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 10:16:31 AM »
Main culprit is Pobjoy Mint issuing a deluge of coins in the name of microscopic countries and aimed at the collector's market and the collector's market only.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

Offline ghipszky

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2008, 04:06:01 AM »
I got all my Crowns and Pobjoy mint coins from a friend on Ebay. Isn't it a waste of metal to make all these coins that aren't even really coins for use as money?
Ginger

Offline ghipszky

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2008, 04:36:53 AM »
Aidan,
Here is where they are for now. Got to go, starting to hurt again.
Ginger
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translateltd

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2008, 09:22:09 PM »
I got all my Crowns and Pobjoy mint coins from a friend on Ebay. Isn't it a waste of metal to make all these coins that aren't even really coins for use as money?
Ginger

Yes, and of money (particularly when buying them new), sadly ...

Martin
NZ

translateltd

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 09:32:21 PM »
Aidan,
Here is where they are for now. Got to go, starting to hurt again.
Ginger
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v237/ghipszky/

Some nice "real" coins and tokens in amongst the NCLT, though - my personal picks for "most interesting" on the first page would be the Sainsbury token (great imitation of a gold guinea in brass by a commercial outfit, and probably made many years after 1798 in reality, maybe even early 20th C.), the Louis II Monaco franc (I just have a soft spot for "real" coins from little European countries) and the 1951 Festival of Britain crown (while not a circulating coin, it was at least struck at a time when NCLT was the exception rather than the rule, it was issued for an event that was designed to improve British morale in the austere days after the war, Pistrucci's St George & the Dragon is a great design, and one of these was technically my "first" coin, even though it was issued some time before I was around - my aunt bought it new and put it aside, and gave it to my mother for me when I was born).

Martin
NZ

Offline africancoins

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 09:01:20 PM »
Pobjoy Mint's production for Gibrlatar is a thing of the past. Tower Mint took over that work a few years ago.

I am not too sure about this group's use of the term "medal-coin". I can see what you are referring to - items made primarily for collectors, often primarily those collectors outside the country of "issue". But "medal" brings to mind a piece without denomination (in the legend or otherwise).

To see a slightly peculiar (a bit of a one-off) issue from Pobjoy Mint - see the ROUND pieces detailed on my page at...
   http://www.wbcc.fsnet.co.uk/af-sie2.htm

They are a pair of "collector coins" for Sierra Leone that were primarily for collectors in Sierra Leone - hence you will not easily find them for sale.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Figleaf

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 10:37:13 PM »
I am not too sure about this group's use of the term "medal-coin". I can see what you are referring to - items made primarily for collectors, often primarily those collectors outside the country of "issue". But "medal" brings to mind a piece without denomination (in the legend or otherwise).

It's more an individual than a group choice, Paul. I like to use pseudo-coins and I agree they're not medals, but as long as everyone understands what is meant it's a semantic issue only. I like to say I personally hate the stuff, but at the same time, I don't think it's useful to tell anyone else what (not) to collect.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

BC Numismatics

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 02:12:17 AM »
Pobjoy Mint's production for Gibrlatar is a thing of the past. Tower Mint took over that work a few years ago.

I am not too sure about this group's use of the term "medal-coin". I can see what you are referring to - items made primarily for collectors, often primarily those collectors outside the country of "issue". But "medal" brings to mind a piece without denomination (in the legend or otherwise).

To see a slightly peculiar (a bit of a one-off) issue from Pobjoy Mint - see the ROUND pieces detailed on my page at...
   http://www.wbcc.fsnet.co.uk/af-sie2.htm

They are a pair of "collector coins" for Sierra Leone that were primarily for collectors in Sierra Leone - hence you will not easily find them for sale.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Paul,
  The term 'medal-coin' is actually quite an old one that was popularised by the late Jerome Remick in his book 'The Guidebook & Catalogue of British Commonwealth Coins,1649-1971,3rd. Edition'.It was even used in the Krause catalogues until the 1983 edition.The term 'medal-coin' is short for 'medallic coin'.

Here's a link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal-coin .

Both the Franklin Mint & the Pobjoy Mint are notorious for their medal-coin issues.

Aidan.

Offline ghipszky

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 05:01:56 PM »
What is NCLT?
Ginger

Offline Figleaf

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 07:27:28 PM »
Good question. NCLT stands for non-circulating legal tender. It means the same thing as pseudo-coins and medal-coins: coins that don't circulate. The term was invented by Krause and Mishler, who are between the ire of advanced collectors and the sensitivities of advertisers, often the issuers of NCLT. KM probably thought NCLT would be neutral, but that was of course wishful thinking, as any label of something ugly will become ugly.

The legal tender part has created much confusion. There is a tribe of collectors proclaiming that coins must be legal tender (which ought to exclude all classical coins, al primitive money and quite a few other legitimate coins, but includes pseudo coins as coins). NCLT issuers happily mention that their wares ae legal tender as a sales argument. See for instance this thread, where an absurd piece is offered as "legal tender". Therefore, I don't think NCLT is a helpful term.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 08:40:33 PM »
I understand Paul's objection, and to get around it I sometimes use the term "denomination-bearing medal", since the "denominations" are usually complete fantasy in the cases we are describing.  A number of colleagues have thought the term both amusing and appropriate, but it hasn't caught on yet - this is my attempt to popularise it some more :-)

Martin
NZ

Offline Figleaf

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 12:18:00 AM »
Mmm. That would put pseudo coins in the same class as my beloved trade tokens. Trade tokens often bear a denomination, but they're not coins. My personal favourite, pseudo coins, was invented by Richard Yeoman, no mean pedigree and not influenced by commercial considerations. Nevertheless, the bottom line is still: as long as everybody understands what you mean...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: NCLT, pseudo coins and other terms
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2008, 02:17:39 AM »
Mmm. That would put pseudo coins in the same class as my beloved trade tokens. Trade tokens often bear a denomination, but they're not coins. My personal favourite, pseudo coins, was invented by Richard Yeoman, no mean pedigree and not influenced by commercial considerations. Nevertheless, the bottom line is still: as long as everybody understands what you mean...

Peter

Ah, but no - because trade tokens are actually meant to be used in trade and their denominations are meaningful.  There's usually nothing "medallic" about them, whereas most NCLT issues are essentially commemorative medals with a phony denomination on them to support the fiction that they're coins.  So your trade tokens are safe from being tarred with this particular brush :-)

Martin
NZ