Author Topic: Bharatpur, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1915 & AD 1858  (Read 616 times)

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Offline capnbirdseye

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Bharatpur, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1915 & AD 1858
« on: September 27, 2012, 09:31:27 PM »
Had this ticketed as Bharatpur since 1968 but just noticed that it's likely to be Brindaban ?, both dates VS 19101915 & AD1858 clearly visible. error in reading date noticed & thread title altered

KM doesn't list VS 1915 for brindraban, only for Bharatpur although the katar is not shown in front of the bust

weight is a bit low at 10.40g, listed weight 10.70+

Interestingly the Obverse is an exact die match for Oesho's coin shown below on a thread here :
 http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2410.0
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:08:05 PM by capnbirdseye »
Vic

Offline Oesho

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Re: Brindraban or Bharatpur rupee, bust of Q. Victoria
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 01:30:40 PM »
Dear capnbirdseye, The coin is indeed of Brindaban. It's the first example where I see the VS-date, 1910 on the flan of the coin. On this issue it is invariably off the flan. Your specimen proves that they bear the same VS-date as on the Bharatpur issues.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Brindraban, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1910 & AD 1858
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 11:34:33 AM »
Instead what priory was assumed, these debased silver rupees with the mint-name 'Brindaban' were not struck at that place, but at the Mint at Bharatpur. According to 'Mathura: a District Memoir' the author F.S. Growse mentions "When the Jats had to leave the country (of Vrindaban in 1784/5), they transferred the mint of that place to Bharatpur, where what are called Brindábani rupees are still coined."
Luckily he does not only add that the Bharatpur rulers continued this production until very late in the 1860's, but also why exactly these debased rupees were so popular: "They are especially used at weddings, and when there are many such festivities going on, the coin is sometimes valued as much as 13 annas, but ordinarily sells for 12."
This also corroborates with an envelope at the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, with the text: "Brindaban - Queens head - said to be a cheap coin struck for charity"
Ref.: JONS, #218 (2014) p.24-32. “Two lacs of Bharatpur and Bindrabund rupees and 15 bags of copper pyce, captured at Dig on Christmas Eve 1804” by Jan Lucassen & Jan Lingen.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Brindaban, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1915 & AD 1858
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 11:45:00 AM »
If the coins of Bharatpur and Brindaban were struck by the same people, but at different mints only, does it still make sense to classify them as coins from different states?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Brindaban, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1915 & AD 1858
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 05:35:47 PM »
If the coins of Bharatpur and Brindaban were struck by the same people, but at different mints only, does it still make sense to classify them as coins from different states?
Peter, a little correction.
From what Jan has mentioned above, the mint at Brindavan / Brindaban was run by the Jats there. However, when they had to leave the country (of Vrindaban in 1784/5), they transferred the mint of that place to Bharatpur. This would mean that
1) there were earlier 2 mints and later one mint minted coins in two names.
2) ( I mention this since I am not familiar with the history of Bharatpur nor that of Brindaban (actually Vrindavan). If the Jats, referred to above were the same rulers of Bharatpur, it would make no sense to have 2 states but if it were different set of people - even of the same family, it would be different states - later one

hopefully Jan or someone with this information will come forward to clarify.

Amit
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Bharatpur, rupee, bust of Q. Victoria dated both VS1915 & AD 1858
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 08:13:47 PM »
It's odd really that when I first posted this thread 5 years ago I put it under Bharatpur as per it's ancient ticket, then Oesho said it would Brindaban so I altered it and now it's come full circle again due to recent information
Vic