Guernesey Double Double: What is in a name?

[Prosit]

This is an 1868 Guernsey 2 Doubles coin.  Where did that denomination name come from?

Come to think about it where did the name Guernesey come from too?

Dale

[Figleaf]

From the French coin "double tournois", shortened to "double". The coins of the abbey of Tours, the denier tournois and the obole tournois, were trusted in a very wide area for their weight and silver content. The kings of France adopted the standard of Tours, imitated the design of the castle of Tours and expanded the series upwards (gros Tournois). Until recently (in relative terms) the Channel Islands used French currency. When British-made currency was first introduced, it used French denominations, translated to British coins with a fixed exchange rate.

Peter

[FosseWay]

The name Guernsey (it was spelt the French way, Guernesey, on the coins until the mid-20th century) apparently means 'corner island'. The termination -ey is a common one for 'island' in the English-speaking parts of the British Isles and the Dutch and Frisian coast. Elsewhere in northern Europe øy (Norwegian and Faroese), ö (Swedish), ø (Danish) and ey again (Icelandic) mean the same thing and come from the same root. The Guern bit is apparently related to a root 'corn', from which comes English corner and, presumably, the Latin and successor languages' words for 'horn'.

Back to numismatics, the link with French currency on Guernsey lived on even after the actual currency used on the mainland had changed to the franc. Until quite late (1921 rings a bell but I may be wrong) the relationship between the double and old French money meant that 8 doubles (the penny-sized coin) wasn't worth quite a penny, and there were 21 Guernsey shillings to the pound sterling. This doesn't actually show up numismatically as the only specifically Guernsey coins minted before the 1950s were 1, 2, 4 and 8 doubles, roughly equating to the UK half-farthing, farthing halfpenny and penny.

A similar situation existed for similar reasons on Jersey until 1872, where there were 13 pence to the shilling, but in this case it does show on the coins. Before 1872 you get some real wacky denominations (one thirteenth, one twenty-sixth and one fifty-second of a shilling) and afterwards some slightly less so (twelfth, twenty-fourth and forty-eighth).

[translateltd]

The story of the "double", if taken back rather further, is quite curiously circular: the double tournois was a "double denier", or two French deniers.  The denier traces its origin to the Roman denarius, as does the English penny (hence the abbreviation "d" in £sd).  This is simplifying a large number of steps, but essentially you reach a point where, thanks to much greater depreciation by the French "pound" compared to the English pound, a coin historically "worth" 16 denarii (the 8 doubles coin of Guernsey) became roughly equivalent to a coin historically "worth" 1 denarius (the English penny).

[translateltd]

Here's an item with a picture of one of the later French "doubles":

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=13262.0

[moneyer12]

interestingly the new jersey bank notes have the denomination in livres on the reverse, as well as french script.

[Figleaf]

Sort of. There is no doubt that États de Jersey is French (though in French, capitalised letters do not get a diacritical). However, livres does not refer to the erstwhile French coin. It is a direct translation of "Pound".

Peter

[translateltd]

Sort of. There is no doubt that États de Jersey is French (though in French, capitalised letters do not get a diacritical). However, livres does not refer to the erstwhile French coin. It is a direct translation of "Pound".

In my experience it's a "sometimes they do, but mostly they don't" thing, with É in particular.  Interesting that "Jersey French" is getting recognition on the notes now, in any case.

[FosseWay]

É in particular serves a lexical and grammatical function that the other accented letters in French don't. The others alter the pronunciation, distinguish between two identical written forms (à and a, où and ou etc.) or do absolutely nothing (most circumflexes) and can therefore be omitted on capitals universally without any risk of misunderstanding or non-comprehension. É on the other hand distinguishes various grammatical pairs (all the first and third person singular present tense endings of regular -er verbs from the past participles of the same verbs, for example) which if not written explicitly could at least be hard to read.