Author Topic: Western Sahara  (Read 4106 times)

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Offline Prosit

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Western Sahara
« on: September 03, 2012, 12:40:16 PM »
Western Sahara has never issued coins has it?
I noticed it iis listed under the countries covered under North Africa...

So what circulates in Western Sahara? Coins of Morocco or Algeria or Mauritania, all three or something else?

Dale

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 12:46:13 PM »
I remember seeing images of three coins from Western Sahara on e-bay...they were denominated in pesetas. I don't know if those are real coins or yet another private issues... ::)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 12:47:38 PM »
Spain would make sense...but today?

Dale

I remember seeing images of three coins from Western Sahara on e-bay...they were denominated in pesetas. I don't know if those are real coins or yet another private issues... ::)

Aditya

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 12:56:47 PM »
It's under the mostly effective control of  morroco...but the Sahraui Republic does exist as well. There are some coins which are issued as legal tender...well, not atleast under the fantasy section of coinage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 01:00:38 PM »
Wikipedia article on Sahrawi Peseta:-

The Sahrawi peseta, is the commemorative currency of the partially unrecognized Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic since the Madrid Accords in 1975. It is divided in 100 céntimos, although coins with this denomination have never been minted, nor have banknotes been printed.

As this territory is mostly controlled by Morocco, the circulating currency in the Western Sahara is the Moroccan dirham, with Algerian dinar and Mauritanian ouguiya circulating in the Sahrawi refugee camps and the city of Lagouira respectively.

As it is not an official currency and not circulating, the Change Rate is not really realistic. Despite this, since the Madrid Accords, Sahrawi Peseta has been pegged at par to Spanish Peseta, and when the latter was phased out by the Euro, the rate became 1€ for 166.386 Pts.


So most likely private issues?

(Bold texts: My emphasis)

Two images from Wikipedia:

Copper 100 pesetas:


Golden 40,000 pesetas. 15th Anniversary of diplomatic relations with Venezuela:


Aditya


It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 01:06:47 PM »
You seem to have neglected to mention from that article

Non-commemorative coins are supposedly designated for circulation. They are minted by the Polisario Front, and made from cupronickel. The denominations are: 1, 2, 5 and 50 pesetas

The Pollissario front are in control of the SADR (i.e the part not under Moroccan influence)...so in terms of my perspective as a coin collector, I wouldn't classify it as a fantasy issue though they probably barely circulate or not at all. A grey area similar to the situation in Transnistria to some extent.

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »
Since Western Sahara is not recognized as an independent state by UN (See: http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml), I'd classify it as private issue. Matter of personal choice of course. :)

Wiki says: The Polisario Front is outlawed in the Morocco-controlled part of Western Sahara, and raising its flag is also illegal. Since 1979, the Polisario Front has been recognized by the United Nations as the representative of the people of Western Sahara. So not real coins in my opinion.

Aditya
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 03:52:55 PM by Bimat »
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 01:54:31 PM »
Also, The Polisario Front is outlawed in the Morocco-controlled part of Western Sahara, and raising its flag is also illegal. Since 1979, the Polisario Front has been recognized by the United Nations as the representative of the people of Western Sahara. So not real coins in my opinion.

Aditya

I'm assuming there's a typo in there somewhere, else you seem to contradict yourself in the post.

The UN plays out it's own politics through the security council. Its just a question if you have the 'right' friends backing you. But the SADR is recognised by 55 countries, the african union and many other entities. But I guess with the above logic, I should keep aside my taiwanese coins...eerrrr...privately minted pseudo issues  ;D ;D ;D

Disclaimer : I don't have views one way or the other on Morroco's control of the Western Sahara

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 03:38:36 PM »
Nothing contradictory. My own rule is that collect coins from nations which are recognized as nations by UN. I don't bother about who supports it or not. (And that is why I mentioned that it's personal choice)..I never said that do not buy it. (They are anyway available cheap)..

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 03:43:45 PM »
And since you have mentioned Taiwan, Taiwanese coins are officially issued by Central Bank of PRC since 2000. (Earlier issues are legal too)..No question of being privately minted.

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 07:19:02 PM »
And since you have mentioned Taiwan, Taiwanese coins are officially issued by Central Bank of PRC since 2000. (Earlier issues are legal too)..No question of being privately minted.

Aditya

I'm not sure where you get your info from. However the official name of Taiwan is the Republic of China. Here's a link to wikipedia about Taiwan dollar. The central mint was shifted out of shanghai when the communists defeated the nationalists and relocated to Taiwan

Coins are minted by the Central Mint of China, while notes are printed by the China Engraving and Printing Works. Both are run by the Central Bank of the Republic of China. The NT$˝ coin is rare because of its low value, while
 the NT$20 coin is rare because of the government's lack of willingness to promote it. As of 2010, the cost of the raw materials in a NT$˝ coin is worth more than the face value of the coin.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Taiwan_dollar#section_3

So I ask you if Taiwanese coins are privately made because Beijing regards the island as a renegade province.

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 07:22:46 PM »
Since Western Sahara is not recognized as an independent state by UN (See: http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml), I'd classify it as private issue. Matter of personal choice of course. :)

Wiki says: The Polisario Front is outlawed in the Morocco-controlled part of Western Sahara, and raising its flag is also illegal. Since 1979, the Polisario Front has been recognized by the United Nations as the representative of the people of Western Sahara. So not real coins in my opinion.

Aditya

I have underlined what seemed contradictory and as such I thought you must have missed out something. Else the UN seems to treat the Polissario  on par with the Palestinian Authority

Offline Bimat

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Western Sahara
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 05:26:14 AM »
I'm not sure where you get your info from. However the official name of Taiwan is the Republic of China. Here's a link to wikipedia about Taiwan dollar. The central mint was shifted out of shanghai when the communists defeated the nationalists and relocated to Taiwan

Coins are minted by the Central Mint of China, while notes are printed by the China Engraving and Printing Works. Both are run by the Central Bank of the Republic of China. The NT$˝ coin is rare because of its low value, while
 the NT$20 coin is rare because of the government's lack of willingness to promote it. As of 2010, the cost of the raw materials in a NT$˝ coin is worth more than the face value of the coin.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Taiwan_dollar#section_3

So I ask you if Taiwanese coins are privately made because Beijing regards the island as a renegade province.

I said the same thing..."Taiwanese coins are officially issued by Central Bank of PRC since 2000".

Wikipedia says the same thing. (And so does your text: Both are run by the Central Bank of the Republic of China.)

Nowhere it says that these are privately issued?

Being a representative and being a full time member...both are different things. I have been repeatedly saying that it's my opinion. Others may not agree...So coins of Somaliland are not coins but tokens. Same with Chechen 'Republic'. No confusion as far I'm concerned.

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

paisepagal

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Re: Western Sahara
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 06:33:15 AM »
...I said the same thing..."Taiwanese coins are officially issued by Central Bank of PRC since 2000"....

My dear Bimat, PRC = People's Republic of China (capital : Beijing). While Taiwan is simply "Republic of China".  Wikipedia says "Central Bank of the Republic of China". You are certainly not referring to the same thing.

And referring to the changeover in 2000

According to the Regulation of exchange rate between New Taiwan Dollars and the fiat currency in the ROC laws (現行法規所定貨幣單位折算新臺幣條例), the exchange rate is fixed at 3 TWD per 1 silver yuan and has never been changed despite decades of inflation. Despite the silver yuan being the primary legal tender currency, it was impossible to buy, sell, or use it, so it effectively did not exist to the public.
In July 2000, the New Taiwan dollar became the official currency of the ROC and is no longer secondary to the silver yuan. At the same time, the Central Bank of China (now known as the Central Bank of the Republic of China) began issuing New Taiwan dollar banknotes directly and the old notes issued by the Bank of Taiwan were taken out of circulation.


It talks about decoupling from the silver yuan system...not minting by a PRC mint !!!