Author Topic: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler  (Read 2197 times)

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translateltd

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Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« on: June 07, 2008, 01:35:52 AM »
Hello all,

I recently bought a 1777SF Burgau thaler (the "original" type from which the 1780 Maria Theres(i)a thalers were subsequently derived).  It looks good to me and the edge seems correct, but I wonder about the weight, which I suspect is a little low (27.65g).

Does anyone know the normal range of weights for this coin type please?  Some allowance must also be made for wear, I guess.

The seller's original image is attached.  The type is Davenport 1150 (KM22).

New information received this morning: the seller bought it from an antique shop in Sumatra. Would originals have found their way that far in trade???

Martin
NZ


translateltd

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Re: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2008, 01:38:50 AM »
Mike Marotta's article here:

http://www.coin-newbies.com/articles/maria_thaler.html

quotes 28g, so that's sounding positive ...


Austrokiwi

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Re: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2008, 07:35:03 PM »
HI Martin I can not find a specific weight reference for that year   In Oesterreichshe Muenzpragungen  it lists an instruktion for 1st January 1754  Weigt of 1 thaler is 28.06 grams.   I will send you a scan of the document separately,

Austrokiwi

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Re: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 09:16:57 AM »
Here is a 1773 Guenzburg example.  it weighs 28.11 grams.   It was purchased from HD Rauch and is genuine.  The high weight tends to suggests to me there was considerable variation from the standard weight.   Given that the dies were hand engraved at the time some variation must be expected. I would note that the 20th century Rome strikes were known to vary in weight {it seems only the Rome mint had the courtesy to publish the variation!}.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 04:51:52 PM »
The seller's original image is attached.  The type is Davenport 1150 (KM22).

New information received this morning: the seller bought it from an antique shop in Sumatra. Would originals have found their way that far in trade???

On the bright side: I can't tell from your pic is this is applicable. Coins that have spent some time in the ground may be very light weight. This is due to acids, in particular fertilizer, that will eat the copper, but not the silver, leaving the coin looking good, though a bit brittle. I have seen genuine coins that were 40%+ underweight because of acidic soil. A weight difference this small wouldn't worry me.

On the dark side: Indonesia is infamous for its coin forgeries, as you undoubtedly know. However, many of these are bad enough to be recognizable instantly.

On your question: I find it quite conceivable that the coin travelled to Sumatra. The type was popular in the Middle East (the reason why they kept making hem) and Islamic traders, pilgrims and teachers were travelling between the Middle East and Sumatra. In fact, the Dutch made a pretty penny with "hadj' ships, transporting believers to and from Mecca.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gerard974

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Re: Weight tolerances for 1777 Burgau thaler
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 08:21:21 AM »
Hello
Is new with natural licht ,maybee is beter
Gerard