Author Topic: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs  (Read 13510 times)

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BC Numismatics

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Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs.
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 11:14:05 PM »
The token dated 1202 has a rosette to the left of Fazl. This rosette appears only on gold coins. There are more details which make it a jewelers imitation. I had a lenghty discussion with Aiden on ZENO http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=53814 regarding a similar token.
Just to make a copy of a gold mohur in a base metal the jewellers couldn't be charged of counterfeiting, as it wasn't a gold mohur and neither a silver rupee.

Jan,
  The base silver (which is debateable) Mohur imitations could have been used as Rupees,as they are the same size as the dump Rupees of that period.If it was intended for use in circulation,then it should be regarded as a coin,as are the contemporary counterfeits of the Nova Scotian coins dated 1832 are.

Aidan.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2008, 11:49:54 PM »
Dear Aiden,
Please read my « Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 10:54:50 AM » very carefully. The practise of copying the 19-san coinage started after they ceased to be legal tender. If they were produced earlier it would have been an act of counterfeiting, which would be heavily punishable. So these tokens, imitating the East India Company 19-san coinage, never have circulated at the same time as the original coins, but only after the 19-san coinage has ceased to be legal tender.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 03:58:19 PM by Oesho »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 05:48:58 AM »
Thanks Aidan and Oesho for drawing my attention to this thread once again.  It is a concept, imitation vs. counterfeiting, which I needed to review.
richie

Offline repindia

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2011, 10:15:26 PM »
I found this thread while looking for more information on these. I have quite a few of these Rupee and 1/2 Rupee tokens and only recently picked up a few gold mohur and 1/2 mohur weight ones. Please comment on these-->





The first two are mohur weight and the last two are 1/2 mohur weight.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2011, 10:44:16 PM »
Please refere to reply #11 above. Also the gold jewelry tokens belong to the same catagory.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2011, 10:45:41 PM »
My comment:  I don't know anyhting about them, but they are beautiful :)

Dale

I found this thread while looking for more information on these. I have quite a few of these Rupee and 1/2 Rupee tokens and only recently picked up a few gold mohur and 1/2 mohur weight ones. Please comment on these-->
The first two are mohur weight and the last two are 1/2 mohur weight.


Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2011, 01:31:57 AM »
It is my understanding (and I should re-read this thread to improve on it!) that contemporary imitations were often to show case the talents of Jewelers.  And gosh, the gold tokens that repindia posted are just beautiful. I agree with Dale wholeheartedly.  But should collectors concern themselves with the use of gold alloys.  Did the 19th century Jeweler ever cut costs by cutting down on the percentage of gold used in the making of the token? 
The following, about use of gold alloys today and not in the 19th century,  was pulled from the web:
Low Carat Alloys - Real Gold or Not?
In the past few decades, a number of gold coins, made to sell to collectors, and as souvenirs and commemoratives, have been made from lower gold alloys, such as 18 carat (75%), 14 carat (58.33), 12 carat (50%), and even 9 carat (37.5%)! We believe that these low carat coins have obviously been produced because marketing departments have wanted a low cost product to fill a market gap, or to maximise their sales and profits


richie

Offline Md. Shariful Islam

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2012, 05:21:56 PM »
And here is another example. Copper and with larger flan. But design is fine. I don't mean that the design is good enough to deceive. The design is different at first look as the letters looks different but what is done has been done in a professional manner.

Islam

Offline cmerc

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2021, 09:18:31 PM »
My recent example to add to this thread.

Style of Murshidabad rupee. Zarb Hindoostan Indya. Letters "G.N." on reverse.
Having some trouble reading the text around G.N. Help appreciated!

Alaam Nai ??  ?? Nur Jameel? ??
Defending this hobby against a disapproving family since 1998.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2021, 09:07:41 AM »
Thank you for adding to this thread. My impression is that there are many more such imitations. It is worthwhile to list them for reference.

Unfortunately, I can't help with the text. It seems clear enough. A PM to one of those who read Arabic would help, I think.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2021, 12:48:57 PM »
The text on the reverse may be read as:
sikkah ala hami din muhammad
khalam bani panjabi
rejistari zewar jamil G.N.

Offline cmerc

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2021, 11:39:07 AM »
The text on the reverse may be read as:
sikkah ala hami din muhammad
ghulam bani panjabi
rejistari zewar jamil G.N.


It's like deciphering and puzzle and you show us how to do it!
Thank you very much, Oesho!

A small suggested change to your reading,  marked above in blue.
Defending this hobby against a disapproving family since 1998.

Offline cmerc

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2021, 11:47:01 AM »
Thank you for adding to this thread. My impression is that there are many more such imitations. It is worthwhile to list them for reference.

Unfortunately, I can't help with the text. It seems clear enough. A PM to one of those who read Arabic would help, I think.

Peter

Thank you, Peter! There are indeed a number of such jeweler's imitations. A lot of them just feature crude calligraphy of the original mohur/rupee legends. However, I find the ones with modified inscriptions most interesting. Sometimes they have a different mint city (Kalkattah, Hindoostan Indya, etc.), or names of the jewelers, as in this example. Always satisfying to pick up one of these pieces, at a reasonable price, to juxtapose against the official rupees.
Defending this hobby against a disapproving family since 1998.

Offline cmerc

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2021, 03:41:29 AM »
Found images for another jeweler's imitation purchased some time ago. This type imitates the original legends faithfully. At some point, might have been gold plated to appear as a mohur. The golden layer has all but worn off.
Defending this hobby against a disapproving family since 1998.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Jewelry Token Imitations: Bengal Presidency Rupees and Mohurs
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2021, 11:45:19 AM »
Nice and sharp. I don't see these pieces as frauds, but rather as cultural artefacts. Coins don't live in isolation. The imitations serve a real and practical need, as much as traditional clothing.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.