Author Topic: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.  (Read 2517 times)

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Offline ZYV

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Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« on: June 10, 2012, 10:14:12 PM »
 :)
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 01:06:27 AM »
This countermark is mentioned by J. Gavin Scott in British Countermarks on Copper and Bronze Coins, London 1975, as "unattributed". He lists varieties, such as W.G, large and very large letters and a countermark on obverse, reverse or both, all on a penny 1797.

Peter
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Offline malj1

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 01:15:35 AM »
I was busy scanning whilst Peter was writing that..

See scan...
Malcolm
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Offline ZYV

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 09:18:58 AM »
Dear Figleaf,
dear malj1
thank You very much for identification!

And one more question if you please.
How frequent/ rare the coin is and what can be said about its price?
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 12:35:36 PM »
The only thing that is known about the countermark is that it occurred in the collection of J. Gavin Scott. That is very little to go on. In addition, there is very little demand for countermarked coins. This is a prime case of "it is worth whatever you can get for it".

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 01:48:28 PM »
How frequent/ rare the coin is...

I always feel it is gratifying to find a counter-mark that is listed in in the catalogue of J. Gavin Scott, it does at least assure one that is not just a isolated issue such as a workman's freak made in an idle moment.

....what can be said about its price?

An auction that is current at present has a few such counter-marked coins listed, all with a reserve of £10 and estimate of £20. But as Peter said "it is worth whatever you can get for it".
Malcolm
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 01:52:24 PM »
Before I joined WoC or came across other references to this kind of countermark on coins, I had no idea that they even could be traceable and it hadn't occurred to me that they might be something more than an irritating defacement on a coin. I suspect many 'conventional' collectors will still take this view. That being the case, you may well find that the value of the coin with an unattributable countermark is lower than the coin by itself (which in the case of the 1797 penny is low to start with).

Offline malj1

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 02:09:23 PM »
You may be surprised then to find that almost blank discs of copper counter-marked with Lloyds Weekly Newspaper command prices in the region of A$100 or more.

Attached is the relevant part of an auction listing that closed last week.
Malcolm
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 03:14:46 PM »
No, I can well understand that a traceable countermark may well command that kind of premium. I was meaning something more like the one in the OP, which could easily be just some bored guy named William Green with a couple of letter punches. But I'm more than happy to be proved wrong  :)

I may have to re-evaluate and research the otherwise pretty grotty US large cent I have that is stamped B. MORSE, which I previously have paid virtually no attention to.

Offline malj1

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 03:24:28 PM »
MORSE, is a name that comes up often, I found three in Brunk on US large cents but no B. MORSE - will have another look tomorrow its quite late here now. Do you know his brother Sam?  ;D
Malcolm
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 03:34:43 PM »
Here's the Morse cent, in case it's of interest.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Countermark WG on British pence. Help to ID c/m, please.
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2019, 10:58:47 AM »
I have a copy of Brunk's 2013 draft for his new addition...not yet published. No listing for "B. Morse" in that either. Interesting old stamp though.

Bruce
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