Author Topic: Portuguese India?  (Read 2660 times)

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Online Figleaf

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Portuguese India?
« on: April 07, 2008, 01:23:01 AM »
Our member Bubba found this lead (?) coin in the central part of the Netherlands. Its diameter is 17 mm, its weight is 4.1 grams. I cannot find it it in Gomes. Ideas, anyone?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline lusomosa

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 07:57:27 AM »
I there,

Stilistically looks a lot like the coins from Sebastian from Portuguese india. But I've never seen anything like it before.

Is it really made of lead or could it be made of the liga used in India with zinc and copper ?

LP

Offline Oesho

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 12:53:16 PM »
Peter, the symbols within the corners of the cross, indicates that it is not a (Indo-) Portuguese issue. I am inclined to attribute it as a Medieval European lead token, many of which are described by Jan E.L. Pelsdonk in his booklet: Pennincxkens van Loode (Goudswaard 2003). Some of them show quite some resemblence with your specimen (see #201), but not exactly the same.

Offline lusomosa

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 10:07:55 PM »
I went to have a look, and could not find anything from portuguese India that looks like this lead coin.
Looking at the picture it does have the color of lead, therefore my previous reply should not lead to an identification.
It is probably a good idea to follow Oesho's tip.

LP

Online Figleaf

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 04:10:30 PM »
Thank you gentlemen. I view of the place where it was found, that would be more logical, though Portuguese coins have come from Dutch clay before.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 08:45:21 PM »
The colour doesn't look like lead from the photo above - it looks coppery.  Or is it the sort of alloy that lusumosa mentions above?

Online Figleaf

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 11:37:16 PM »
I haven't seen the coin, but I think the pic is too red. Distracting some red, the coin becomes greyer.

The "lead" used in coins of Portuguese India and what is now Malaysia is calaim, a mix of lead with other metals, mainly copper.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline lusomosa

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Re: Portuguese India?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2008, 04:26:58 PM »
One note about the colour :
I know Lead is normally gray but with time and perhaps depending on the ground where it is preserved, can become brown/yellow as on the picture. They do remain rather soft. The reason why I believe the "coin" can be made of lead is because I have and I've seen many coins from the south of Portugal and Spain minted in Roman times ( many called Tessera ). This coins are made of lead and were minted in times of war or political instability and served the needs of local vilages. This coins have a uge range of colour from gray to ( more often ) brown and yellow. I don't know why this happens , maybe patina from other metals in the alloy or just the change of colour from the presence of iron  or copper in the soil.

I include a picture I found in the Net from a Tessera from Spain. Many were produced in mining areas and served the needs of the local work force.   The colour is typical from this type of coins.

LP
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 04:28:58 PM by lusomosa »