Author Topic: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?  (Read 4736 times)

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Offline asm

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For a long time I was under the impression that this is a Dam of Akbar issued at Ahmedabad but now I am not sure. Please help confirm. Also, the date is placed on the wrong side of the coin (than found on normal Ahmedabad coins) and only 2 digits are seen. 82..... Please help attribute.



Amit
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 02:23:13 PM by asm »
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint? AH 982?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 02:40:51 PM »
Is this the coin with the Dar al Khilafat legend, KM#28 of Ahmedabad unlike the Dar al Saltanat KM#29 which are easily available?

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline saro

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint? AH 982?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 03:47:11 PM »
Dear asm, the date is with no doubt AH 982 as given by both the last digit and the nearly full date in persian letters :"zarb nuhsad wa hashtad wa do" (left scan)
According to Whitehead, Ahmadabad was called "dar al-Khalifat" on silver and gold coins till AH981 and then becomes "dar al-sultanat" on coins after this date. This dam seems well to be from Ahmadabad mint and, if it is correct, is of great interest with such a legend  and such a date.
The question needs  to be confirmed by experts.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Oesho

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint? AH 982?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 10:42:06 PM »
Andrew Liddle illustrates the same coin and attribute it to Agra (Plate XXV, C-2).

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra? AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 12:20:06 PM »
Dear Oesho,

I tried to check on ZENO, South Asia Coins Group - Cabinet and Numismaster but could not find a similar Dam of Agra. Numismaster shows only two types of Dam attributed to Akbar - KM#28.1 which is a standard one with the Dar al Khilafat legend but there is no central divider on either obverse or reverse. The other one is the Ilahi type KM#32.1.

However, I could not find any image of a coin of Ahmedabad in copper with the legend Dar al Khilafat. KM#28.2 has plain Ahmedabad while 29.1 is Dar al Sultanate. The others are Ilahi types. If there were Silver and Gold coins with Dar al Khilafat legend, would copper coins of similar era too not have that epithet. Copper coins of Akbar from Agra from 96X till 987 have the epithet Dar al Khilafat.

Another point to consider is that the mark like the nib of a pen as well as the central divider as seen on the coins of Ahmedabad are there on the coin. Only the placement of the date in numerals is a bit different.

Can some one with Persian reading skills please look into this?

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

akona20

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra? AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 02:09:33 PM »
My problem now is that I have to have seen the identical script before I can recognise it. So, the obverse which you have shown as the right hand coin presents for me the problem, the reverse or left hand coin presents no problem.

At first pass I would say Agra but only because the only other coin I have seen with the dotted bar on both sides is from Delhi at this time. I cannot see Ahmadabad.

Offline saro

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra? AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »
The coin shown on plate XXV / C2 in Andrew Liddle's book is well of the same type (with no special indication of rarity), but I think that the attribution is doubtful; this dam may have been attributed to Agra because of the mint epithet, as the mintname isn't clearly legible: the only thing is that it begins by "A" (inside "Kha" of khalifat), and that there is no room for a long name.
As far I know, only 3 mints have struck dams with such a median dotted line : Delhi, Ahmadabad and Ujjainpur,

No copper coins of this type have been catalogued previously for Agra..

As noticed by asm, the symbol over "nuhsad" (lower part of left picture) is the same encountered on Ahmadabad dams of year 982.

I think that the question for the moment is still opened..
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

akona20

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra? AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 10:01:20 AM »
Well and concisely put. I withdraw my Agra suggestion, done purely on space and what could be seen and fall in line with Saro.

Given asm's current work with Ahmadbad this becomes an important coin to resolve.

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint? AH 982?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 08:30:10 AM »
Andrew Liddle illustrates the same coin and attribute it to Agra (Plate XXV, C-2).

I had the coin read by a local 'expert' who is known for his skills with Mughal coins. He confirms that the mint name was indeed Dar al Khilafat, Agra with very little of the mint name on the coin. However, with the coin in hand he looked quite puzzled as he had never seen such a coin.

On SACG too, I received confirmation from Zubair Khan that the coin is Agra.

When I sent him an enlarged picture, Overlord too said the coin read more Agra than Ahmedabad though there was not as much of the mint name on my coin as seen on the coin in the Andrew Liddle catalogue.

I will try to scan a high resolution, enlarged scan as well as a close up image and see if it helps read the mint name better. Till such time, I will presume that the coin is Akbar Dam, Dar al-Khilafat, Agra. Hope every one concurs...........

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

akona20

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra? AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 09:20:47 AM »
I would appreciate it if you could send me the HR scan. Just as a reference point. I am struggling to see that currently.

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »
I had sent High Resolution scans of the coin with larger than life size to various friends on WoC ond elsewhere. The feed abck suggests that the coin is indeed Dar al-Khilafat, Agrah.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 02:28:19 PM »
Here is Saro's take on the subject:

Dear Amit,

Many thanks for this picture of your dam which now confirms with any doubt that this coin is well from Agra mint. Since last posts on WoC, as I was very intrigued by this Akbar's copper of a new type, I have found the similar script for "dar al-khalifath Agrah" on an
already well known dam of an another type: Valentine n°20 (p. 92 dated AH 977).

I possess this one of which I join a picture and the drawing of Valentine so that you can judge by yourself. There is now no doubt that we can read "Agra(h)" on yours, after "dar al-khalifath"; when cut, this legend looks a little like a trident ...





I think that the question is now very clear, there is no mis-attribution on Andrew Liddle's work and you possess here a very scarce coin of a new type for Agra mint.

The symbol over "nuhsad" is very confusing as it's the same on Ahmadabad's dams (with dotted lines)...I think it may be linked with the date and not with the mint, as we find it only on dams of AH 982 ?  (Ahmadabad's dams with other dates show different symbols).

With my best wishes from France;
Bien cordialement


Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 02:40:59 PM »
.........and here is Oesho's take on the coin:

Dear Amit,

I had already several times a look at your coin, but failed to find another specimen (except the one by Liddle).

There is an article in the Numismatic Supplement of the Asiatic Society, No IV (1904) by Geo P. Taylor: Akbar’s copper coins of Ahmadabad.

Nowhere in that article it is mentioned that the epithet Dar al-Khilafat was used for Ahmadabad. The earliest coins of Akbar for Ahmadabad are dated AH980. See: http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=79779  In 982 the epithet Dar al-Sultanat was introduced. Similar to this type:  http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=79781

Despite the statement of Liddle on page 13 of his book, I presume that no coin with Dar al-Khilafat was struck at Ahmadabad.

Your coin, with  the epithet Dar al-Khilafat, must therefore be struck at another mint and Agra is the most likely place. Also if you look carefully at the coin we can read zarb falus below the decorative divider, with 82 above b of zarb. The 9 is probably located within the loop of seen of falus.

Above the decorative divider the legend starts with d alif re (dar). Next to the alif another alif is engraved followed by a compound word lam gha-a-l-a (l-khila) fat is to the left of it obove the divider.

Now we are left with two symbols, an alif above ‘l-khila’ and and a v-like form between the lam an alif of ‘l-khila’. The lam and alif are spread open to accommodate another symbol. I called it a v-like symbol, which can be interpreted as gaaf-re. Together with the alif it could well make Agrah. The he of Agrah would be to the left, but is off the flan.

I presume that we may safely assume that this issue is of Agra mint. Your consultations of experienced dealers suggests the same.

Kind Regards,


Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

akona20

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 03:04:52 PM »
Thank you gentlemen for the learning curve on this one. I was somewhat perplexed by that section. If you look at coin 14 Agra(h) in Valentine you can see the almost likeness for Khalifat as on here with the small variation. I had somewhat miscounted my aliphs by one it appears (too many) and was left with the v type arrangement. As I could find no Agra(h) of such type in my literature I discounted it, obviously wrongly.

Offline asm

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Re: Mughal, Akbar, Dam, Mint: Dar al Khilafat, Agra, AH 982. Ref: KM#?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 03:10:04 AM »
This sketch sent by Mr Zubair Khan explains the reading of Oesho very well..............


Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"