Author Topic: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark  (Read 3738 times)

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Offline Arminius

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New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« on: April 25, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
Hello,

i see a third flower-like mark ??? at the very bottom on the reverse of this 10 Francs issue of New Caledonia that aroused my curiosity.

As Krause can´t help my expectations are the for the Paris mint or Oceania experts on WOC:



(for changing the size of this picture in your browser press ctrl + / - )

New Caledonia, Paris mint, engraver: Raymond Joly, 1967 AD.,
10 Francs (24 mm / 6,01 g), nickel, 6,00 g. theor. mint weight, mintage 400.000 , coin alignment ↑↓ (180°), reeded edge,
Obv.: RÉPVBLIQVE - FRANÇAISE / · 1967 · / R·JOLY , capped Liberty head facing left.
Rev.: NOUVELLE - CALEDONIE / 10 f , outrigger-sailboat and island above value, privy marks cornucopia (for Paris mint), an unclear mark (flower?) and owl (for Raymond Joly) below.
KM 5 .

Maybe someone can tell some details.

Regards

Offline Figleaf

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 10:06:04 PM »
You will find the same thing on later (post 1972) issues, so it is part of the design, not a mark.

I suspect that it is a trick of the designer. Designers like to know the vertical line that divides the coin into two equal parts, if only for an even repartition of the letters in the legend. Connect your flower with the hyphen at 12 o'clock and you have that line.

On the 20 francs of the same series, the mint mark has the same function. On the 50 francs, the function is exercised by the riser of the letter f in the denomination.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gerhard Schön

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 02:04:00 AM »
I suspect that it is a trick of the designer.

Not a trick. It is the privy mark (fleurette) of the Engraving Bureau (Atelier de Gravure) of the Paris Mint (Monnaie de Paris).
Source: Schön's World Coin Catalogue 46th edition 2018.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 07:28:18 AM »
One does not exclude the other. See the 50 francs of the same series, where the mintmark is a designer's helper.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Arminius

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 08:33:14 AM »
Thanks for all the useful informations!

 :)

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 04:18:02 PM »
Hi,

I've just gotten a 2011 and 2012 coin from NC, and the cornucopia stays the same, but eagles head (beak) has been exchanged to something looking like maybe a flower? Anybody knows what that sign is supposed to be?

Did you know that in the year 2000 the mark was a horseshoe on the 1 & 2 franc coins and on the 10 to 100 franc coins it was a bee? I dont have a 5 franc from 2000, so I don't know, what it featured.

The full modified documentation (thanks to Figleaf) of the privy marks can be found in the excel sheet and as a visual in jpeg.

Ole
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 02:04:23 PM by Globetrotter »
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline Figleaf

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 10:49:31 PM »
At the time, I wasn't aware that the privy marks of the Monnaie de Paris had changed. Gerhard Schön was quite right. The signs are, from left to right:

Régie des monnaies - cornucopia.
Chief engraver - various, including those to the right of the date.
Die sinker - various, including owl, for Raymond Joly

The pentagonal mark is that of Yves Sampo. It consists of the letter pairs YS, AO and MP. More information here.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 01:40:51 PM »
Thanks Peter,

I have modified my documentation accordingly (also the thing I thought was a beak, which is actually a hunting horn!!)

Ole
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: New Caledonia - unknown privy mark
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 02:00:20 PM »
Hi,

here is the pentagon in details.

Ole

Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/