Troubled coins

Started by Figleaf, March 25, 2008, 11:33:55 PM

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brandm24

My hand would be shaky too. Some of that is due to the good amount of detail on the coin and the fact that the maker how too much to say to use a small coin...half crown maybe?

Sorry about the misunderstanding on the origins of the coin. The seller was from Wiltshire in the UK not the US. Besides we don't do car boots here...we call them garage or yard sales. ;D

Bruce
Always Faithful

brandm24

In regard to other counterstamped coins mentioning William Craig this is another one in my collection. In addition to my two examples feauring this small font punch set, I've seen two or three others. As the appearance of all are nearly identical it's likely that they were struck by the same person or group.

Bruce
Always Faithful

brandm24

For the longest time I thought the obverse counterstamp read "WTR" and as such was unable to identify it. At some point I examined it more closely under high magnification and found that it actually was "WTP". What I thought was the foot of an R wasn't part of the letter but an incidental mark or gouge in the strings of the harp. The "WTP" was later identified to me by a man I often consult on these Troubles issues as "We the People."

In the preamble to the Second Irish Constitution adopted 29 December, 1937 for the formation of the Irish Republic this phrase appeared near the beginning of the text.

            "In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our
            final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, WE THE PEOPLE of Eire,
            acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our
            fathers through centuries of trial, gratefully remembering the heroic and unremitting struggle
            to regain the rightful independence of our Nation."

This reference to the people of Ireland is represented on this coin by WTP . Please note that the word Eire has been obliterated and represents a repudiation of Irish independence or Home Rule. It's a subtle rebuke but still a clear message from a Unionist perspective.

Bruce
Always Faithful

CTX3030

Interesting font used for the UVF countermark on this 1964 Eire florin.


brandm24

I agree about the font. The U looks normal...older style...but the V and F appear distorted. Both are slightly double struck so that may be the cause of the odd look.

Bruce
Always Faithful

CTX3030

In today's post, purchased from an advert in the ROI.

1962, 1963, 1966 Eire florins countermark UVF

1969, 1971 Eire 10p countermark UVF

1971 Eire 10p countermark UVF 1690

Interestingly the 1971 UVF countermark has been struck with the same damaged punch as the two coins discussed in post #384


brandm24

It does look the same. They were either punched by the same issuer or it's just coincidental (not likely though). Good catch!

Bruce
Always Faithful

CTX3030

It is certainly stamped using the same dies, particularly noticeable in the broken U and the sloping end of the middle line on the F, but I wonder if  the different placements, on the salmon and under the salmon, indicates that a different person may have stamped them.

brandm24

As you know, the most common placement is in an arc across the salmon's body. The difference in location could be the efforts of another person as you say.

Bruce
Always Faithful

CTX3030

In today's post from a contact in Dublin.

UK 1965 Two Shillings, countermark IRA

There appears to be a small punch mark between the I and R the purpose of which is not known.


brandm24

Yes, I see the mark but can't tell if it's part of the counterstamp or not. The curved line running from the barrel of the R to the tip of the A is caused by the shoulder of the A punch coming into contact with the coin. Not unusual to see that.

Bruce
Always Faithful

CTX3030

Had a run of purchases recently, from six different sources in UK and ROI.

Particularly pleased to have picked up the 1969 Eire 5p with VANGUARD countermark, and the 2000 UK £1 with RIRA countermark.

The meaning of J on the 1967 Eire 6d is not known, but not thought to be political.




brandm24

A nice set of stamps. I can't think of anything political for the "J" stamp either. I haven't seen a UK stamp before.

The Vanguard looks to be a prepared punch? With just one or two examples other than Vanguard using prepared punches  these are highly unusual. Im addition to other Vanguards, I've seen an IRA slogan, and a Rome Rule impression from a prepared punch. I'll look for thr picture of mine and post it later.

Bruce
Always Faithful

brandm24

Here's an image of my Rome Rule counterstamp plus a UVF stamp using individual punches. An odd combination as Unionists were anti home rule. Home Rule/Rome Rule is the commonly used slogan. Apparently, the two stamps were struck separately.

I got the coin from a source in Telford, UK in 2020.

Bruce
Always Faithful

FosseWay

Quote from: brandm24 on February 10, 2022, 12:48:51 PM
Here's an image of my Rome Rule counterstamp plus a UVF stamp using individual punches. An odd combination as Unionists were anti home rule. Home Rule/Rome Rule is the commonly used slogan. Apparently, the two stamps were struck separately.

I got the coin from a source in Telford, UK in 2020.

Bruce

I interpreted "Rome Rule" as being entirely in the spirit of the UVF. They wanted to portray Irish independence/unification not so much as creating an Irish government by Irish people for Irish people, as letting the Vatican in by the back door.

The Rome Rule is right underneath ÉIRE - it's implying that the Republic of Ireland is under "Rome Rule" and if you object to this, you should support the UVF.