Author Topic: Troubled coins  (Read 21730 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2020, 05:05:45 PM »
Good news for your collection and for me also. ;)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #151 on: November 01, 2020, 10:58:47 AM »
Troubles stamps on newer coins...late 1990s and 2000s...aren't often seen, with some exceptions. Those exceptions include political slogans pertaining to events, and in a few cases organizations, that occured or were organized in that period. The most prominent being coins stamped by RIRA (Real Irish Republican Army) which splintered from the IRA in 1998. They've been prolific counterstampers. Nearly all of the dozens I've seen appear on high-value British coins, mostly 1 and 2 Pound pieces, and are stamped heavily across the Queen's portrait.

This 2008 10p is stamped ONH, the acronym identifying the paramilitary Oglaigh Na hEirann (Soldiers of Ireland). The ONH was formed in 2008 from disaffected members of RIRA. Though small, numbering probably no more than 50 volunteers, they carried out a series of bombings, shootings, and punishment attacks until 2018 when they declared a ceasefire. At that point some ONH members formed a small group known as the Irish Republican Movement. Their status today is unknown to me. RIRA, however, continues but is known now as the New Irish Republican Army or simply the IRA.

This ONH stamp is the only one I've ever seen. It was acquired from a source in Belfast in 2015.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #152 on: November 01, 2020, 05:02:24 PM »
While looking at the ONH wall graffiti in the above picture I noticed that there was a slogan or something else painted on the wall earlier. It's mostly been removed but was wondering if anyone can make out what it said...or a least part of its message. I can see a few letters but not enough to translate it.

Bruce
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #153 on: November 01, 2020, 05:45:41 PM »
Do you have a high resolution pic and can you ask the man to move away? :)

On the bottom row, the only thing that's clear is STO... The next letter is not a P.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #154 on: November 01, 2020, 06:07:31 PM »
I think it's ...STON followed by a space and a longer word beginning with E.

The ...STON word is quite likely either a place name or a surname.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #155 on: November 01, 2020, 07:38:54 PM »
Traced the wall and building. It can be found here. On the photo of 2015 that can be seen in the link, the ONH mural is also still visible. It has long since been removed and also been replaced multiple times by other murals. On the desktop version of the Google Maps website you can browse the several photos Google Street View has made of the building over the years. The building is that of the former Seàn MacDíarmada sports club.

Unfortunately Google Street View didn't have a photo of the building when it still depicted the earlier 'ston' mural but the photos did offer clues about a few of the erased words. Using that information, after some searching I found the photo below which answers your question. Background information about the sentence can be found on this website, where a similar mural in a nearby street is being described.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 08:42:35 PM by eurocoin »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #156 on: November 01, 2020, 07:43:04 PM »
 :applause: :applause: :applause:
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #157 on: November 01, 2020, 09:13:06 PM »
Yikes, didn't know Sherlock Holmes was here on WoC.   :rock: :thankyou:

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #158 on: November 02, 2020, 12:18:14 PM »
The RNU (Republican Network for Unity / Poblachta'igh do Aontiu') was ostensibly the political wing of the ONH though the relationship is murky at best. When the ONH disbanded in 2018 it denied any involvement with the RNU. This type of denial is common among these political and military organizations however, so the truth is unclear.

In any case, the RNU, a left-wing Socialist political party, was founded in 2007 under the unwieldly name of "Ex-POW's and Concerned Republicans Against RUC / PSNI & MI5" At the time they were considered a pressure group and didn't register as a recognized political party until October, 2013. After the disbandonment of the ONH in 2018, The RNU carried on and is still active today. Their strength and amount of influence in Northern Irieland politics is probably minimal.

This coin and the last can probably be considered companion pieces. The two were acquired from the same source in Belfast in 2015 and are very similar in appearance, even down to the dark staining on the planchets. Both are British 10p coins dated 2007 and 2008 respectively whuch fits well with the founding dates of both organizations. The font and style of the stamps are a perfect match which suggests a common maker...my source, perhaps? As is the case with the ONH example, this is the only example of an RNU stamp i've seen.

The image of the graffiti is from the Falls Rd. in West Belfast.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #159 on: December 10, 2020, 02:50:28 PM »
This is another coin from the Belfast Collection (BC 19). The acronyms read IU / PP and are stamped on a 1959 Irish Florin. The Collector's brief comments are as follows.

      "IU / PP]": 24/02/78 Charity shop in Droheda. Ireland Unfree / Padraig Pearse.

The Seller added these words in way of explanation.

      "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace" is one of the better known slogans of Padraig Pearse, the principle leader of the 1916 Easter Rising. Droheda is a town just across the birder and is known to be a hideout and refuge for a lot of Reoublican volunteers.

Additional comments:

      The Easter Rising occurred during Easter week, 1916, and was a revolt staged by Irish Nationalists against British rule in Ireland. Most action was seen in Dublin, but Counties Meath, Galway, Louth, and Wexford also experienced outbreaks of violence. Padraig Pearse, leader of the Irish Volunteers, and James Connolly of the Irish Citizen Army were the principle leaders. Other active groups included the Irish Republican Brotherhood,  Cumann na mBan, Hiberian Rifles, and Fiann Eireann. The rebellion was over by April 30th after which many of the leaders were tried for treason, convicted and executed. Both Pearse and Connolly were among them. - A charity shop is a retail establishment run by a charitable organization to raise money for a cause. An American equivalent would be Goodwill Industries, Habitat for Humanity or a church opearted outlet. - Droheda is in County Louth.


The mural in the image is painted on a wall in the Ballycolman Estate, Strabane, County Tyrone. During the Troubles, Strabane was an IRA stronghold under the control of the West Tyrone Brigade. It was one of the bloodiest theaters in the entire conflict.

Bruce
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #160 on: December 10, 2020, 04:20:23 PM »
The charity may well have provided financial support to one or more groups on the other side of the border. These financial flows and the arms smuggling were the lifelines that kept the troubles going.

Referring to Padraig Pearse automatically brings James Conolly and Roger Casement into the picture. The executions of these three were arguably the starting point of Irish independence. The show of raw power was experienced as revolting. It turned lukewarm support into wholehearted support for ending British rule, not only in Ireland, but also in the rest of Britain and the US, where Irish immigrants contributed to the lifelines mentioned above.

In this sense, the reference to Pearse is telling. It is a reference that turns naive idealism and martyrdom into the calculated advocacy of bloody violence for the sake of intolerance.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #161 on: December 10, 2020, 06:47:10 PM »
In this sense, the reference to Pearse is telling. It is a reference that turns naive idealism and martyrdom into the calculated advocacy of bloody violence for the sake of intolerance.

Not just that. There are two corollaries to the assertion that "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace". One is the implied, but by no means certain, suggestion that a free Ireland will be at peace. The other is the necessary and unavoidable implication that freedom can only be won by war - as there is no peace so long as there is no freedom. It is the exact opposite of Mahatma Gandhi's philosophy concerning how to rid India of colonial power.

There has always been a strand of thought among the extreme wing of Republicanism that Irish freedom/unity must be won through martyrdom - that a unified Irish state achieved through armed struggle is somehow more honourable or "better" than one achieved by peaceful negotiation.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #162 on: December 10, 2020, 08:42:20 PM »
The kerning of the Pearse mural hurts my eyes.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #163 on: December 10, 2020, 08:54:08 PM »
The charity may well have provided financial support to one or more groups on the other side of the border. These financial flows and the arms smuggling were the lifelines that kept the troubles going.

 The executions of these three were arguably the starting point of Irish independence. The show of raw power was experienced as revolting. It turned lukewarm support into wholehearted support for ending British rule, not only in Ireland, but also in the rest of Britain and the US, where Irish immigrants contributed to the lifelines mentioned above.



Peter

No doubt some of theses Charity shops were fronts for raising funds for the cause. Afterall, this coin was received in change at one of them...possibly made there. Two other Belfast pieces were received in a similar fashion, one at a bar in Bestbrook and the other also at a charity shop this one supported by Cumann na mBan. Their initials CNB were scratched on the coin...not a coincidence. I'm sure the money taken in there wasn't used to buy the kids ice cream.

Two incidents in particular were instrumental in galvanizing support for independence. This one as you say, and the death of ten IRA and INLA men during the 1981 hunger strike. Instaed of easing up somewhat on prison regulation and status, the government created ten martyrs. IRA support soared as a result.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #164 on: December 10, 2020, 09:01:49 PM »

There has always been a strand of thought among the extreme wing of Republicanism that Irish freedom/unity must be won through martyrdom - that a unified Irish state achieved through armed struggle is somehow more honourable or "better" than one achieved by peaceful negotiation.

Very true no doubt. The Good Friday Agreement, though far from perfect, is a good example of a truly "better" way.

Bruce
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