Author Topic: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga  (Read 6090 times)

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Offline PeaceBD

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1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« on: March 10, 2012, 02:48:20 AM »
A new addition to my Portuguese-India collection. I have a bunch of later date Portuguese-India coins from my childhood collection.Most of them are in nice condition. But this one is pretty hard to find this nice.This coin has nice even brown color with original mint red color with luster still remaining in the protected areas.
1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga KM#13. Obv: head of Carlos I Rev: Crowned shield.
Let me know how you like this coin. Share pictures if you have any.



Thanks
Bhushan

Offline Abhay

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 05:29:36 AM »
A nice and well toned coin.
Here are my Tangas, all dated 1903.
The name of the Engraver reads V ALVES (V A in short) on the coins.

Abhay
INVESTING IN YESTERDAY

Offline Vivek

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 11:06:32 AM »
1/2 tanga and other coins...unfortunately cleaned.  :'(
Vivek

Offline natko

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 03:04:24 PM »
Don't know for AU-UNC, as my min. condition for buying coin is XF for pre WWII coinage. Of this series I have quite easily found 1/12th (small piece so not worn I assume) and 1/2 tanga (large piece, but possibly wasn't widespread so much as I often see it in AU). Other two seem to be very hard in XF and better.

BTW, 1871 coins are almost always in grades that didn't circulate. Is it possible that they haven't been used at all? Or even in considerable numbers.

Offline Harry

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 03:53:36 PM »

Nice coins guys!  I've always wanted to own Portuguese India coins but I don't know enough about them.  Why did they use roman numerals for the date? Was that what was used on Portuguese coins during that period? How complicated! Not only did one have to figure out what Tanga Vs Rupees was worth but now they had to read the date in roman numerals - you could have a whole math class with this coin! I'm sure a teacher would say "Kids, study your 1/12 Tanga and 1/4 Tanga, they are going to be on the test tomorrow!"

This coin has nice even brown color with original mint red color with luster still remaining in the protected areas.
1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga KM#13. Obv: head of Carlos I Rev: Crowned shield.

Bhushan - As usual, an outstanding specimen of an wonderful coin.

The name of the Engraver reads V ALVES (V A in short) on the coins.

Thanks for the info Abhay!

1/2 tanga and other coins...unfortunately cleaned.  :'(

I feel your pain bro! :'(
Collector of British India, Straits Settlements, Malaya, East Africa coins and papermoney

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 08:22:12 PM »
Abhay and Vivek thanks for posting the pics. I would like to have a set like yours but its been really hard to find these coins especially the 1901's in the condition I want.
Don't know for AU-UNC, as my min. condition for buying coin is XF for pre WWII coinage. Of this series I have quite easily found 1/12th (small piece so not worn I assume) and 1/2 tanga (large piece, but possibly wasn't widespread so much as I often see it in AU). Other two seem to be very hard in XF and better.

BTW, 1871 coins are almost always in grades that didn't circulate. Is it possible that they haven't been used at all? Or even in considerable numbers.

Natko, thanks for offering your insight on the availability of these in your neck of the woods. As you mentioned finding the 1/2 tanga in better grades is very tough. Even the 1871 P-I coins are hard to find here. The fractional 1/12 and 1/8 tanga are I guess hard to find in un-circulated grades. A 1901 1/12 tanga graded MS 64 Brown touted as the best graded ( Not the case as mine is MS 64 Red Brown) recently sold on Ebay close to 400$.

Nice coins guys!  I've always wanted to own Portuguese India coins but I don't know enough about them.  Why did they use roman numerals for the date? Was that what was used on Portuguese coins during that period? How complicated! Not only did one have to figure out what Tanga Vs Rupees was worth but now they had to read the date in roman numerals - you could have a whole math class with this coin! I'm sure a teacher would say "Kids, study your 1/12 Tanga and 1/4 Tanga, they are going to be on the test tomorrow!"

   
Harry, you have bought up some interesting questions. Hope someone will be able to answer these.

Thanks
BD

Online Figleaf

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 01:28:46 AM »
I've always wanted to own Portuguese India coins but I don't know enough about them.

The best reference I know is Gomes. Not cheap.

Why did they use roman numerals for the date? Was that what was used on Portuguese coins during that period? How complicated! Not only did one have to figure out what Tanga Vs Rupees was worth but now they had to read the date in roman numerals - you could have a whole math class with this coin! I'm sure a teacher would say "Kids, study your 1/12 Tanga and 1/4 Tanga, they are going to be on the test tomorrow!"

It is indeed a Portuguese tradition. If you study colonial coins, you will often see how they are completely local in character in the beginning. At some point, they become local on one side, European in character on the other side. In the next stage, both sides are European in character, with only a denomination or country name thrown in for the locals. The irony is that at the same time, more and more people would be able to read. That makes the use of Roman numerals even more silly, but also an educational illustration of how colonial powers (especially when ruled by tin-pot dictators, as in Portugal) lost contact with reality as they became more powerful in their colonies.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Harry

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 10:07:33 PM »
The best reference I know is Gomes. Not cheap.

Thanks for the link Peter. Yes I agree, its really does not make sense to have the date as roman numerals.  Was the Portuguese rupee equivalent to the British India Rupee? I'm sure that the BI currency must have been used in the Portuguese colonies in India, is this correct?
Collector of British India, Straits Settlements, Malaya, East Africa coins and papermoney

Online Figleaf

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 03:12:41 AM »
The Portuguese Indian rupee was 11.66 grams and 917 fineness, the same as the British Indian rupee. Economic theory predicts that the British Indian rupee would have driven out the Portuguese Indian rupee, because the British had a more powerful position in India than the Portuguese. In practice, I suspect that the Portuguese would have insisted on the use of Portuguese Indian rupees for some transactions, such as paying tax or buying postage stamps, if only to cash in on seigniorage.

The status of the coins of Portuguese India in British India may surprise: by Act XVII of 1881, the Portuguese Indian coins were made legal tender in British India. This was the result of an agreement between the two colonial powers, that also decided that all Portuguese Indian coins would be struck in British India.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 08:24:12 PM »
The Portuguese Indian rupee was 11.66 grams and 917 fineness, the same as the British Indian rupee. Economic theory predicts that the British Indian rupee would have driven out the Portuguese Indian rupee, because the British had a more powerful position in India than the Portuguese. In practice, I suspect that the Portuguese would have insisted on the use of Portuguese Indian rupees for some transactions, such as paying tax or buying postage stamps, if only to cash in on seigniorage.

The status of the coins of Portuguese India in British India may surprise: by Act XVII of 1881, the Portuguese Indian coins were made legal tender in British India. This was the result of an agreement between the two colonial powers, that also decided that all Portuguese Indian coins would be struck in British India.

Peter
Peter, that is some very interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

Offline The Oracle

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 07:02:39 PM »
A new addition to my Portuguese-India collection. I have a bunch of later date Portuguese-India coins from my childhood collection.Most of them are in nice condition. But this one is pretty hard to find this nice.This coin has nice even brown color with original mint red color with luster still remaining in the protected areas.
1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga KM#13. Obv: head of Carlos I Rev: Crowned shield.
Let me know how you like this coin. Share pictures if you have any.



Thanks
Bhushan

only seen one better and that was a proof

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 07:17:07 PM »
only seen one better and that was a proof
Yes ,I saw those proofs in the old auction records. Those are sweet. Don't know if we will see any of those offered again any time soon. >:(

Offline The Oracle

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Re: 1901 Portuguese-India 1/12 Tanga
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 07:20:31 PM »
Yes ,I saw those proofs in the old auction records. Those are sweet. Don't know if we will see any of those offered again any time soon. >:(

a complete collection of the 4 proofs is almost impossible to get.