Author Topic: French 1 Republic copper coins  (Read 2569 times)

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Offline natko

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French 1 Republic copper coins
« on: March 01, 2012, 07:01:30 PM »
In the late 1790s (1797 to be correct) obviously value of franc increased so authorities made copper coins double heavier. Some of them were produced by striking over higher denominations, so 1 decime became half and 2 decimes became one. That's maybe the single example in modern coinage, at least the only I can remember, while opposite is quite common - doubling FV of coins. Also, there is an extremely interesting piece of 1 decime, manually modified 2 decimes. Hell of a job! 5 centimes couldn't have been made that way, of course.

Anyway, I would like to know are they any differences between newly struck coins and overstruck pieces?
Both 5 and 10 centimes look same to me, except older coin is more or less visible.


Online Figleaf

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Re: French 1 Republic copper coins
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 02:22:26 PM »
I can only answer your questions partly. Just before the French revolution, the franc suffered heavily from royal overspending, expansion of the money supply by assignats and slowly losing out to the British in colonial wars, especially in the Americas. The revolutionaries put much value on reforming the monetary system. This caused a general appreciation of the currency and the re-appearance of coins.

One event were coins were made worth less, with the same amount of metal was the Irish gun money, which became worth only a fraction of what it was issued for after the battle of the Boyne, but that was fiduciary money.

Another example are the coins of the Republic of a schelling (6 stuivers) not counterstamped with a bundle of arrows. These were reduced in 1693 to 5-1/2 stuivers while only the counterstamped coins were tariffed at 6 stuivers.

The attachment shows a schelling 1676 Utrecht counterstamped according to the regulation of 1693.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: French 1 Republic copper coins
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 04:34:58 PM »
In England at the beginning of Elizabeth I's reign counterstamps were used to reduce the face value of two base silver issues of Edward VI. The very base shillings (Ed VI 2nd coinage) were countermarked with a portcullis and circulated for fourpence halfpenny and the extremely base 3rd coinage ones had a greyhound as counterstamp and circulated for twopence farthing. However, although this looks like a redenomination downwards it's really only an official recognition of common knowledge and practice: the base silver of the end of Henry VIII and start of Edward VI's reigns was supposed to circulate at far higher denominations than it was worth and the countermarks merely corrected this and gave the currency some stability and confidence. There was widespread reluctance to accept the bad coinages at face value, with people either insisting on pre-adulterated silver for a given debt or on raising the price so that the 'correct' amount of silver was tendered in the debased coinage.

The countermarked coins are worth significantly more today than the uncountermarked ones, and in an interesting twist of fate, both Edward VI's fine (925) silver shillings and Elizabeth's own issues are worth less than the adulterated ones that were mostly copper.

Offline natko

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Re: French 1 Republic copper coins
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 11:26:36 AM »
Interesting stories. I also recall I have Portuguese 10 or 25 escudos (lazy to check now) which enlarged size in 80s, but left the same design. It might be as of Portuguese entrance to the EU, opening of its market and vast increase of tourism. Portugal didn't have good time in 70s for sure.

Anyhow, answer to my second question - are they any differences in design between newly made coins and those on old planchets are no. An experienced French collector confirmed that not only the images are the sam (same dies used) but the weights and borders are the same and only diffference is actually that old design is more or less seen on those coins. So I consider them the same type, as SCWC would do in most cases!

you can see those coins detailly at:
5C - struck over older 10c - leFranc link
5C - struck on new planchet - leFranc link

Decime - struck over 2 decimes  - leFranc link
Decime - new planchet -  - leFranc link
Decime - modification of 2 decimes - leFranc link

Have to get the last one, it's awesome!  8)