Author Topic: William IIII Rupee  (Read 16587 times)

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Offline abhinumis

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William IIII Rupee
« on: March 01, 2012, 03:32:18 PM »
Hi all,
Finally got my william rupee.. Costed me 3500 INR. Please comment on how u think the coin is and grade it if possible.
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Harry

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 03:54:55 PM »

Its a nice coin, however, it looks like it may have been cleaned. You can see the surface hairlines on it. Nevertheless these coins are in high demand and sellers are asking for very high prices. Rencently an AU58 PCGS graded coin sold for $260 on ebay (Rs 13,000).  I would grade your coin as XF and I think the price you paid is correct.
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Offline brokencompass

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 05:21:13 PM »
I feel this coin may have been cleaned too because of the way dirt sits around on the edges and because of the possible microsopic cleaning surface hairlines. When someone that is not familiar with cleaning coins carefully cleans coins, they usually clean the fields of the coin but they don't touch the devices of the coin. If you see dust along the corners of letters or devices whereas the fields are really nice, it is possible that the coin has been cleaned. When you see it under magnification, do you notice any hairlines?

I would grade this coin AU because I am not able to notice any evident wear on the surface of the coin.
My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
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Offline PeaceBD

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 05:32:09 PM »
I agree with Harry and BC. The coin has hairlines and looks like it was cleaned/ lightly wiped using a jeweller's cloth. Without the hairlines the coin would have graded a low AU.

Thanks
BD

Offline Md. Shariful Islam

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 07:47:52 PM »
The coin, if genuine, is in nice condition but probably cleaned. My opinion is same as other experts here. But I request to conduct a ping test and then measure the diameter and thickness. Untill the coin pass through these two tests I have doubt on it. The almost intact hair and ear asks me to doubt on it.

Islam

Offline anand

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 08:16:56 PM »
Agree with the comments so far. The legends on both sides show slight coloring around them and not much any coloring in William's portrait. seems to be cleaned. Not sure after cleaning can we still grade something XF or higher.

Anand

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 08:26:30 PM »
Not sure after cleaning can we still grade something XF or higher.

Anand
For coins which are not old enough to be dug up but mostly a few centuries old cleaning should make them un-gradable. It does not matter what grade the coin is in as its hard to overlook a harshly cleaned coin IMO.
Itís a completely different ball game for ancient coins.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 10:45:04 PM by PeaceBD »

Offline anand

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 08:33:34 PM »
For coins which are not old enough to be dug up but mostly a few centuries year old cleaning should make them un-gradable. It does not matter what grade the coin is in as its hard to overlook a harshly cleaned coin IMO.
Itís a completely different ball game for ancient coins.


Interesting I have seen some collectors and others who dont want to do anything with coins that have been cleaned. Based on that was under the impression if a coin is cleaned, the desirability is anyway lower but grading also is difficult and not done.

Anand

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2012, 10:51:32 PM »
Interesting I have seen some collectors and others who dont want to do anything with coins that have been cleaned. Based on that was under the impression if a coin is cleaned, the desirability is anyway lower but grading also is difficult and not done.

Anand

Anand, that is what I meant. I would not want a cleaned coin in my collection if itís an EIC, British India or later coin which is generally easily available in better condition. Now if you are talking about a really rare coin like Maratha Hon, Mughal Portrait coins etc then it is a different thing where rarity of the coin might make one overlook the condition of the coin.

Offline anand

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2012, 11:17:26 PM »
got it!!  :)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 07:51:45 AM »
Thanks all of u for ur valuable comments! This definitely has passed the ping test and diameter and weight is almost perfect Islamda.. Agreed that the coin has been cleaned but the details on the coin is so good that I cudn't resist it.. I guess the jeweller cleaned it to get rid of the blackening that u get on a silver coin,  uncleaned wud have been perfect but getting such a coin uncleaned in this state is approx 5000-5500 INR here. My question is whether the cleaning has totally taken the credits off the coin??
Dr.Abhishek

Offline abhinumis

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 07:59:24 AM »
And I have carefully examined the letterings and other details including the edge and can confirm it to be genuine!!
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Harry

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 03:45:16 PM »
Remember that as this coin is part of your collection, YOU and only you can determine its true value. Its value is what you think its value is and no reference book or forum can change that.

Having said this, when you are talking of buying or selling a coin from the market then yes cleaning significantly reduces its "market value" as getting an uncleaned coin is more difficult in this state. As you can see, you purchased the coin for Rs 3500 and state that an uncleaned version is around Rs 5000-5500, that’s 60% more. I would however say that an uncleaned coin in XF-AU condition would be worth around Rs 7000 depending on its luster and eye appeal.  Yes  its significantly higher.

I personally don't purchase cleaned BI coins regardless of the price or rarity, I just don't  buy them anymore. Thats not to say that a cleaned coin is "bad", its a personal choice and my collecting style. There are many collectors who don't care if a coin is cleaned or not, however my personal view is that for BI coins this will change and is changing as more collectors recognize how difficult it is to get BI and especially the 1835 Rupee in a high graded uncleaned,  they will pay a significantly higher price for them.
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Offline Md. Shariful Islam

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 04:01:53 PM »
And I have carefully examined the letterings and other details including the edge and can confirm it to be genuine!!

Then for me the coin is great. Nice condition. I dont mind if cleaned softly. As it is your coin, ask yourself whether you are satisfied or not. It is your coin for your satisfactions.

Islam

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Re: William IIII Rupee
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 08:46:11 PM »
My question is whether the cleaning has totally taken the credits off the coin??

That is not going to change the fact that this is a Rupee of William 4.
Even coin cleaning is an art but unfortunately this coin was touched by some novice.

If you are not happy with this, it wont take more than 15 mins to turn this coin black.....most of the hairline scratches won't be visible then.