Did you know there is a "European Central Mint"?

[chrisild]

News from the World Money Fair in Berlin: The so-called "European Central Mint" has made a contract with Suriname, and the company will sell Suriname bullion and collector coins. Tomorrow the president of Suriname's central bank, Gillmore Hoefdraad, and the former Dutch minister Willem Vermeend, will attend the "first strike" ceremony at the WMF in Berlin.

Of course this "European Central Mint" does not have anything to do with the European Central Bank, and this mint does not make any euro coins. It is a Dutch company, headquartered in Amsterdam. See http://www.europeancentralmint.com - except that at this time the website does not have much content yet ...

Christian

[<k>]

The name is designed to mislead, just like "The London Mint", which is a private company. The Royal Mint is in Wales and has not been located in London since the 1970s.

[Figleaf]

Actually, the European Central Mint is close to the Central Station, which is in Amsterdam, therefore in Europe. So there! Of course it is designed to mislead. There's a Central Station in Utrecht also, which is close the State Mint

I hope that those who style themselves the Surinam authorities know the difference, though anyone who has worked with Italcambio has probably already surrendered any form of national dignity and respect, let alone credibility. The best scenario I can think of is some drugs dealers who want to change their illegal USD into legal gold. That sort of operation has become Surinam's specialty. It's always sad to see a country sink into Lala-land territory, rather than seek sustainable development by hard work

Peter

[chrisild]

Now that their website has been launched, you can also "admire" the other stuff they sell. A replica of a Juliana 1 gulden coin, for example. And it is interesting to see what customers they are after ...

"The strength of the former Guilder has been one of the main pillars behind the formation of the new invented an currently disputed Euro. Many inhabitants of the current Eurozone regret the fact that their stable currency ceased to be legal tender since january the first 2002." http://www.europeancentralmint.com/bullion/coins/juliana/

Christian

[European Central Mint]

Dear people,

I would like to explain a bit more about the European Central Mint so that there will be no misunderstandings
European Central Mint is actually a Mint with the same legal status as the KNM or one of the other privatized mints in Europe. We produce coins, tokens (commemorative/currency) for different countries.
The misunderstanding you have is that our offices are located at the Herengracht in Amsterdam, but our actual production facility is located at Westpoort industrial area in Amsterdam. Of course at the Herengracht location minting is not possible 
We choose to separate the office from the mint for security reasons since we also refine gold/silver.
In contrary what is stated by Christian, we do produce Euro coins.

Although some people believe we are 'misleading' others by our name, we can say that we actually are an European Central Mint with offices in different European countries. We have no intention at all to mislead anyone.

If the moderators of this forum are interested, we are willing to invite you to our factory and show our actual minting production and what is behind it.

If there are any questions, we are willing to answer them and hope to have a positive cooperation with anyone who loves coins or minting technology.

for questions please email to: info@europeancentralmint.com

With kindest Regards,

G. Schepers

[chrisild]

In contrary what is stated by Christian, we do produce Euro coins.

Ah, OK then. I had not seen any at your website when I looked; that is why I assumed you don't produce euro coins. As for the company name, well, I sometimes tell people, say, from the UK or US that the euro notes are issued by the European Central Bank (or rather by the Eurosystem) while there is no such institution on the "coins side", that coins are issued by the individual member states only, etc. etc. And all of a sudden there is this company named European Central Mint ...

(Then again, there is a coin dealer/distributor in the US called Royal Scandinavian Mint. Not royal, not Scandinavian, not a mint. )

Nice to have you here though, and thanks for the invitation too!

Christian

[akona20]

I was wondering when I approved this account whether it had been a piece of corporate intelligence that brought them here after the posts about the Mint or just plain luck. Being a non commercial site there is always a fine line when commercial operators want to join.

So welcome to the site. Oh and I live in Australia I wonder if the invitation includes airfares?

[<k>]

Put this in Google: "european central mint"  - and this topic comes up on the first page! See how we've grown. 

[Figleaf]

Dear Mr. Schepers,

I grew up in Amsterdam. Therefore, I never learned to be as kind and diplomatic as Christian. If that disturbs you, please don't read on.

I disagree with practically everything you have put forward that is not purely factual. Let's take the root of our disagreement first. Coins are money. What you offer is not money. You offer fantasies, medals and stamped bars. Not a single coin. Let's make a quick check. On which of your products does the consumer pay zero per cent VAT? None. What is the VAT rate on current coins? Exactly. Zero per cent.

Let's take an example of the fantasies. A gulden 2011. Of course it's not money. The design is an almost rip-off of an original produced by the state mint in Utrecht. You just left off the mintmark and mintmaster mark, but didn't bother the remove Professor Wenkebach's signature. Are you paying his estate for using his design?

Next, the Surinam piece. The very fact that it is gold proves that it is not a coin. Since the early 19th century, gold, silver and copper have been slowly phased out as coin metals. Real coins use harder amalgams. So what is it? In the 1970s, someone discovered a loophole in the VAT regulations: gold coins could be struck and sold free of VAT. This is how the Kruger rand came about. It was followed by the Chervonets and the Maple Leaf and other such stuff. Of course the tax people found out and the tax loophole was closed. From that time on, it has been cheaper not to invest in physical gold and silver but in instruments based on metals. If you insist on investing in precious metals, an ETF is a far cheaper instrument.

Speaking about transaction cost, I find no information on your site on the agio paid on the Surinam coin. I presume this is why you carefully avoid the word "investment" on your site. You don't want to add the required investing information (financiële bijsluiter) with this piece. It would reveal that commodities in general and metals in particular are a volatile instrument with a zero return, so that its total return depends completely on price movements. All this at a time when metals are at record highs while they are inversely correlated to economic growth. In non-technical terms, commodities investments are totally unsuitable for retail investors. These so-called bullion coins (they are neither bullion nor coins) will simply destroy the capital of small savers. Would you argue that metals are a good inflation hedge? Think again. They are that only in times of war. Do let me know which war the Netherlands (the country) will be physically involved in in the near future. The above applies to the silver bars also.

That leaves the medals. I have looked at the GATA web site and become very suspicious. There is little real information there, but it all reads like a US ultra-right metal flogging operation. It is your right and privilege to do business with such people. However, I wonder how close you are to them and whether the medals are not just the Surinam/bar products in yet another form.

That leaves nothing. I haven't found any coins on your site, let alone euro coins. I am not commenting on dodgy use of language on your site.

Now your name. Let me make clear that I will believe you if you say that it is legal. That doesn't make you a privatised mint. In fact, since you are not producing coins, the word mint is questionable in itself. You are a precious metals dealer. Is the name meant to deceive? You will know that the European Union has introduced a common currency, the coins of which are the responsibility of national mints. You know most likely that there are no plans to centralise the European mints, so what exactly did you want to suggest with the name?

One last point. Like others of your ilk, you stress high quality, craftsmanship and innovation. None of these are characteristics of real coins. Real coins are mass produced articles, meant for daily use. The only innovation goes into cost reduction and security.

Peter

[akona20]

Sigh, there goes my hopes for an all expenses paid trip to visit the mint.

However what has been said by Figleaf is absolutely correct.

[Prosit]

Agree 100%
Dale

Sigh, there goes my hopes for an all expenses paid trip to visit the mint.

However what has been said by Figleaf is absolutely correct.

[translateltd]

What was the word for the people that bagged the good website names in the hope that entities technically more entitled to them might pay them a fortune to surrender the name later on?  Not quite sure why I thought of that just now but wanted to ask anyway.

[Figleaf]

That actually happened to one of me old employers, the OECD. The dimwits forgot to pay the rights for the url of the French version of their site. A squatter took it and posted porn. They sued and won. You can take that sort of risk only if you are rich or if it's the tax payer's money anyway.

Peter

[translateltd]

Cybersquatters, that was it, thanks, Peter.  Do we have "mintersquatters" now?

[akona20]

As a marketing ploy, oops I mean tool, it is very good. The quasi official sounding name is a real winner and I somehow wish I was in charge of their marketing.

If you want to buy gold etc in something useful I know a few places you can go and the mark up on manufactured produxt over raw metal price is not all that big, certainly a lot lower than pseudo coin makers.

Now if they were really honest they would call themselves medallion makers but of course that is harder to market than the coin idea. Well actualy I don't think it would be, just takes a little adventure.