NY CNG Auction Items Seized.

[akona20]

In an amazing event a number of coins have been seized from the landmark CNG New York auction.

The coins in question are ultra high end and it is the provinence of the coins (undoubted really) that is being brought into question.

This falls somewhat into line with the American government's current fascination about so called illegaly obtained ancient artefacts. I am still wondering how Cyprus can claim rights over Byzantine artefacts when it was a mere colony of Byzantium so surely any claim would go back now to Turkey or is that too difficult to understand.

I have no further details other than a phone call just received on the matter.

[Figleaf]

First of all, it is a fact that archeological looting goes on in Cyprus and that it seems to be large scale. Second, there is little doubt in my mind that looted items are smuggled out and get into the criminal circuit. Third, it behooves people to fight crime.

From there on, things get murky. Akona raises one problem: is an artifact the "property" of the country it was made or the country it was found? Another is, can a law act retro-actively, i.e. if I bought the artifact before things got tight, never knowing that I would need the name and address of the seller plus maybe information on how/where the seller got it, is the artifact subject to the law when I sell it? Another question in my mind: why do I have to prove I am innocent? Why doesn't anyone have to prove I am guilty? Side note: Napoleonic law, at the basis of many European law systems, says that if an item was bought at an auction, its return can be enforced only if it can be proven that the buyer knew or could have known that the item was stolen.

Next, there is the question of stupid law, often discussed here. If a government drafts a treasure trove law that invites looting and smuggling, is that government not to blame for the consequences of its very own stupidity?

Next, there is the question of the ruthless stupidity of a select group of professional archeologists when it comes to numismatics. They cannot believe that most coins are dirt cheap and that age has nothing to do with the price of a coin. They think in terms of art, not in terms of  objects of daily use, made constantly and often in astonishing numbers. They are ignorant of the very size of the coin market and believe that all coins were found in the ground last week, right where they wanted to start digging next week if only they had the time and the funds. They don't believe in talking to collectors and brand them all criminals. They wouldn't dream of learning from the British experience of working with, rather than against metal detector pilots. I am afraid that it is exactly this ignorant and intolerant brand of archeologists that is behind the line of thinking behind this action.

Peter

[Bimat]

Puzzle over police raid on NY coin sale

23 January 2012

AN eyewitness account of a raid on the Nomos/CNG coin sale in New York on January 4 reveals how police locked the doors of the saleroom and took down the details of all those inside.

The purpose of the raid is still not clear – one theory is that the Italian authorities claimed the coins seized had been illegally exported from Italy.

The police are reported to have seized two coins from the 19-lot classical Greek offering and arrested and temporarily detained Arnold-Peter Weiss, a renowned hand surgeon and a Trustee of the American Numismatic Society, who is a partner in the firm and thought to have been the vendor.

The sale was part of January's multi-million dollar New York coin sales series and was scheduled for the same day as the landmark Prospero auction, reported here.

The Nomos/CNG sale was billed as "Selections from the Cabinet W" and both of the coins reported as seized were struck in late 5th century BC Sicily.

ATG managed to reach Weiss on the phone, but he said that he could not comment for legal reasons. Nomos were no more forthcoming. However, the eyewitness account came from online magazine Coin World.

One of the coins reported as seized is the celebrated decadrachm of the Sicilian city of Acragas struck in 409-406 BC. There are now 12 known examples, an increase on the six recorded by the scholar A.J. Seltman in 1948. The oldest provenance relates to the one at Munich which has been there since the 16th century.

The one reported as seized is listed in the catalogue as having been in a collection in London since the 1960s.

The other coin reported as seized was the decadrachm struck in the city of Katane, also in Sicily, at about the same time. They had estimates of $2.5m and $300,000 respectively.

Three other coins originally struck in Sicily were not seized.

Could it be that the seizures are linked to the stricter legislation concerning coins originally from Italy and imported into the United States, which became law on December 1?

By Richard Falkiner

Source

[chrisild]

And the story goes on ... but has made an interesting turn. Yes, Dr. Weiss pleaded guilty; he wanted to sell coins that he knew had been looted. Except that they later turned out to be excellent counterfeits.

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP910efeb3395c4e069f8387715326edd6.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/07/the-case-of-the-nearly-perfect-counterfeit-coin/259482/

Christian

[akona20]

If I said it was the best defence available to a really stupid law how does that sound?

[dheer]

If I said it was the best defence available to a really stupid law how does that sound?

But why would an expert testify that the coins are forgeries? If it goes to some other expert he may testify this are Original?

[akona20]

Look at the case history and the people involved. I am suggested that a smart legal out was to declare the coins a sophisticated forgery. It is merely a suggestion on why it happened this way.

Very devisive and complex.

The law on this matter in America is an ass and a joke.

[Figleaf]

Med prof pleads guilty to coin theft
Christian Petroske, Contributing Writer, September 10, 2012

Arnold-Peter Weiss, a hand surgeon and professor of orthopaedics at the Alpert Medical School, pleaded guilty July 3 to charges of criminal possession of ancient Greek coins that were the property of the Italian government.

Under a plea deal, Weiss must complete 70 hours of community service, give up all 23 coins that were seized from him at the time of arrest and attempt to publish an article on the problem of trading coins with uncertain origins. The University did not respond to repeated email requests for comment.

The article's purpose will be to "raise needed awareness about unprovenanced coins" and "promote responsible collecting among numismatists," said Joan Vollero, a spokeswoman for the Manhattan District Attorney's office, in a statement made outside the courtroom.

Weiss has been instructed by his attorneys to refrain from comment until after his case has been discharged. The conditions of the plea deal will be set into court record during the official sentencing hearing Sept. 17, according to court records.

Weiss was arrested Jan. 3 at a coin auction at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in New York after he tried to sell what was thought to be a silver tetradrachm, a Greek coin from the fourth century B.C., at the 40th annual International Numismatic Convention. He bought the coin for $250,000 and tried to sell it for around $350,000, according to the complaint.

What he did not know was that the coin was actually fake. After his arrest, an expert declared the coins to be forgeries. But the criminal charges still applied since Weiss believed the coins to be real at the time of the arrest, according to court documents.

The forged tetradrachm and two other fake ancient coins — decadrachms — were allegedly found in his possession at the time of his arrest. Authentic versions of these coins are worth approximately $1.2 million apiece.

Weiss believed that all three coins — purportedly found in Sicily — were authentic and found after 1909, he told a Manhattan court July 3. He acknowledged that he was aware of Italian law at the time.

Under the Italian Code of the Cultural and Landscape Heritage, all antiquities found in Italy after 1909 are property of Italy. According to the complaint, Weiss was recorded by a confidential informant saying, "There's no paperwork. I know this is a fresh coin, this was dug up a few years ago. ... This was dug up two years ago. I know where this came from."

Weiss also told Investigator John Freck of the New York County District Attorney's Office that the coin was "freshly dug," according to the complaint. It was therefore property of the Italian government.

In recent years, Italy has demanded the return of various artifacts taken from the country as a result of looting. Both the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and the J. Paul Getty Museum in Los Angeles have agreed to return antiquities looted from Italy.

Source: Brown Daily Herald