Author Topic: Commemoratives of Franz Joseph I - Gedenkmünzen  (Read 3729 times)

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Offline natko

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Commemoratives of Franz Joseph I - Gedenkmünzen
« on: December 25, 2011, 03:27:48 PM »
Franz Joseph issued some non circulating commemoratives, which were probably legal tender as issued by the Wien mint and most of them has got currency mark or/and actual size of circulation coins.

This was quite a novelty in Austro-Hungarian coinage, which until then issued only medals or coronation "Jetons", although doppelthalers for the centuries before have been actually nothing but presentation strikes.

Some of issues have been listed in Krause SCWC catalog as "medallic issues", now from some reason moved to Unusual world coins.

Speaking of Hungary, it's fairly simple, there is a forint commemorating reopening of Schemnitz mines. Same specs as ordinary forint.

Austria has fairly longer list and I've compiled a list, as some are not included in Krause catalogs, divided them in 3 sections:

I - Old monetary system (up to 1857)
1 GULDEN   12,99g   M1   1854 Wedding
2 GULDEN   25,99g   M3   1854 Wedding
Things are fairly simple here, those are exactly the same as half thaler and whole thaler, additionally, I can read edge on bigger one : ZWEI GULDEN ~ XII EINE F.W.M.

Gets complicated on reformed coinage (1857-1892)
II - General Commemoratives

1 FLORIN   12.34g   M2   1875 Pribram
2 FLORIN   24.69g   M5   1879 Silver Wedding Ann.
2 FLORIN   22.28g   M7   1887 Reopening of Kuttenberg Mines
1 THALER   18.52g   M9   1877 Mt.Raxalpe Inn Opening
1 FLORIN   12.34g   M1(Hun)   1878 Selmetzbanya - Schemnitz
2 THALER   37.03g   M10   1857 Opening of Vienna-Trieste Railway

Of those pieces only Kuttenberg is lighter than circulation ones, like shooting florins, shown below. I guess they were sold for face value on the opening/fest ceremony. It would be interesting to see do they have edge inscription (two mining 1 FL do and they were legal tender, but only with edges same as regular florins), especially those that do not have value explicitly written.

III - Shooting Commemoratives
2 FLORIN   22,01g   M4   1873 Vienna Shooting Fest (37mm)
2 FLORIN   22,20g   M6   1880 1st Federal Shooting Fest (36,5mm)
2 FLORIN   22,17g      1883 Schützenvereins zu Wien (36,3mm)
2 FLORIN   22,13g      1885 2nd Österreichische Bundesschießen zu Innsbruck (36,3 mm, in the name of Maximilian)
2 FLORIN   22,16g      1888 V. Niederösterreichische Bundesschießen (36,3mm)
2 FLORIN?   22,87g      1889 3rd Österreichisches Bundesschiessen Graz (36mm)
2 FLORIN?   22,90g      1892    4th Österreichische Bundesschießen Brünn (36,1mm)
1 THALER   16,86g   M8   1868 3rd German Shooting Fest (33mm)

Those are all lighter, but of same sizes as official (weights and diameters from auctions, so can be considered verified), but many have specified face value, except 3rd Austrian shooting which might be considered as a medal but since of similar dimensions and same series, sometimes collected as "Gedenk Doppelgulden". Also, peculiar is piece from 1885, where instead of Franz Joseph obverse emperor Maximilian is honored. As I said, it would be interesting to know edge inscriptions, but I can't find that data. I'm yet to receive M6, I doubt I'll get it before February.

Also, easily there might exist more Austrian shooting double florins (before 1892) that can be added to the list. I would appreciate any help on this series.

Also, if there are some older gedenkmunzen that exist from Austria I would surely like to know.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 05:59:16 PM by natko »

Offline natko

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Re: Commemoratives of Franz Joseph I - Gedenkmünzen
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 04:51:58 PM »
To heat it up, here are two photos of those not included in Krause catalog.
On the other hand, thaler M13, from 1884 is private issue by numismatic society of Vienna, commemorating 400th Anniversary of First Thaler, so not official issue like those here.

Shooting club Vienna 1883

5th Lower Austrian Royal Shooting fest & 40th Anniversary of Shooting Fests

3rd Austrian Shooting fest - Graz
Medal or 2 Florin? Whatever, complements list nicely, I'll go for it once.

If only I know the edge insription of these...

Also, this one qualifies quite well, same characteristics

There is commemorative 5 Kronen of 1898, 5th Austrian shooting, with same characteristics as usual piece!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 05:18:25 PM by natko »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Commemoratives of Franz Joseph I - Gedenkmünzen
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 09:31:41 PM »
Very interesting, Natko! Those Schützenthaler are a difficult breed. I am sure you know that they have Swiss counterparts. I keep reading those were used as money and I keep finding it unlikely, except by accident. These pieces were souvenirs of a memorable occasion on a national level that you have visited in person. How likely is it that after some time, you'll shrug and spend them?

What you are left with is a very pretty medal without denomination or legal tender status that happens to have the same technical specification as a coin in circulation.

I must admit that 1892 piece would definitely attract my attention. ;)

An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline natko

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Re: Commemoratives of Franz Joseph I - Gedenkmünzen
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 11:40:24 AM »
Exactly, they were non circulating, but official commemorative issues. Like US commemoratives, which were sold for a bit higher than face value and quite similar to today NCLT.

True, when anybody mention "shooting thaler" it automatically refers to Switzerland.

As I said, I would like to know do any of those have denominated edge, which might be easily possible, as they're nost just happened to be same characteristics, they're continuation of M4 and M6 which are denominated. They're all lighter than official, but it might be considered "fee for commemorative issue". Official status is important anyway.