Author Topic: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"  (Read 3123 times)

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Offline <k>

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Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« on: October 27, 2011, 01:50:22 AM »
Parent topic:  Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland


The parent topic (above) gives an overview of the coinage of Ireland from decimalisation up to the euro. Please post any comments, questions or corrections here.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 09:16:51 PM by <k> »

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 05:44:21 PM »
I am restricting myself in the parent topic to the decimal series of the Irish punt, as I want to link it my other topics on the subject of the sterling area, loosely named. I am therefore excluding the euro, even though it is also of course a decimal currency.

Originally the Irish punt was pegged to sterling, so I think that justifies my including it in a broader "sterling area" series. The link with sterling was broken between 1978 and 1979, when Ireland joined the European Monetary System and became part of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. After that, the punt can no longer be considered a part of any notional sterling area. However, I will continue the story up to Ireland's adoption of the euro, as it is an interesting one, and it is also fascinating to see the ways in which the UK and Irish coinage then diverged, even though they developed in similar ways, in terms of which new denominations were adopted and which existing coins were amended.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 12:25:07 PM »
Thanks for yet another splendid thread. I find your explanation of how and why the UK and Irish series slowly drifted apart particularly good. I have lived through the radical change of the Irish economy from one of the poorest to the richest in the EU, a severe crisis and back again to what passes for normalcy, seen Dublin go from drab to wild to self-assured. In spite of the downs, it was a great ride.

I have a couple of points.

I am sure and certain that the barnyard series is extremely popular in Ireland and beyond and that it is particularly well designed. However, its style is old-fashioned by now. While we can all admire the art of René Lalique, few will want to decorate our house completely in his style and those who do end up in a series of articles on funny people in a family magazine. Beloved art is just that. It is not an unalterable benchmark for the centuries.

In line with that, while I agree with your assessment that the Celtic ring designs were too busy for the coins they were put on, your enlargements show how well they would have done on a larger surface. The ancient designs are not just old art, but also connect with contemporary Irish concerns, its search for an identity its relation to the UK, even its place in Europe (think Bretons, Scots, Basques, Welsh). The mistake, I would argue, was not the design, but on which coin they were used.

One more thing. Ireland's lone real commemorative, Patrick Pearse, deserves a post, I think.

(BTW, what's with the first post in the thread?)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 12:59:53 PM »
I am sure and certain that the barnyard series is extremely popular in Ireland and beyond and that it is particularly well designed. However, its style is old-fashioned by now.

I agree with you on that, but was bemused by Ireland's continuing love affair with the designs, as seen on their recent collector coins, so I wondered whether they'd resurrect them in the highly unlikely event of Ireland leaving the euro. My own position is that Ireland has changed enormously since the advent of the Metcalfe designs, so I would prefer to see them design a completely new series, if a national currency was ever again necessary.

In line with that, while I agree with your assessment that the Celtic ring designs were too busy for the coins they were put on, your enlargements show how well they would have done on a larger surface. The ancient designs are not just old art, but also connect with contemporary Irish concerns, its search for an identity its relation to the UK, even its place in Europe (think Bretons, Scots, Basques, Welsh). The mistake, I would argue, was not the design, but on which coin they were used.

I agree that they would have a certain charm on a series of larger coins, but I resented the fact that they destroyed the artistic unity of the set by being mixed in with the Metcalfe designs. That was a huge error, in my opinion.


One more thing. Ireland's lone real commemorative, Patrick Pearse, deserves a post, I think.

My topic was on decimal coins and that ten shilling coin was predecimal. I do have it in mind to do a thread on the predecimal coins one day.

(BTW, what's with the first post in the thread?)

You may not have noticed, but since September 9th, I have created quite a few topics beginning with "Milestones in the decimal coinage of...". My aim is to tie them all together into a parent topic called "Decimal Coins of the Sterling Area". The first post in each "Milestones" topic will carry a link back to the parent topic. Sterling area is a loose name, of course, but I have now finished all the necessary "Milestone" topics. I will start on the sterling area topic some time soon and make comparisons between the coinages. It's a long project but one that I felt needed to be done, as Britain has an international dimension that isn't catered for by the geographical split of our boards. A sterling area topic in the UK board will be able to link to all these different "Milestone" topics and bring them together in one place. I've done more than a few topics that I'm proud of on the forum, but I regard this as my magnum opus so far.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 10:59:34 PM »
Ireland's lone real commemorative, Patrick Pearse...

Doesn't the 1988 Dublin Millennium 50p count?

Offline SquareEarth

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 02:20:55 PM »
What the set would have looked like if not for choice of one single design for all denominations.  8)


http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,25099.0.html

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 08:32:52 PM by Niels »
Tong Bao_Tsuho_Tong Bo_Thong Bao

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 06:29:19 PM »
A very minor correction, but one of your new posts mentions the UK sixpence remaining in use until the end of 1979.  It was actually until the middle of 1980 (legal tender status ceased after 30 June 1980).

I didn’t realise the smaller Irish 5p had the same weight (3.25g) as the UK one.  As the Irish one had a half-millimetre bigger diameter, I’m assuming that meant it was also very slightly thinner.

Might be worth noting in the main topic that at this point, Ireland chose to abandon the weight-value relationship between the 5p and 10p.  The UK retained it with their new 5p and 10p.  Personally I liked the Irish sizings.  A slightly bigger 5p and a smaller 10p works better.  Not sure if the Irish 10p size may have clashed with the UK 20p one though.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 07:44:27 PM »
Thanks, I've corrected the UK sixpence part.

As for the weight-value relationship between the 5p and 10p, I'll just let people read your comments here. I don't know enough about that policy in either country. Here in the UK, the banks stopped bagging 1p and 2p coins together years ago - same for 5p and 10p coins. I don't know when that happened, though, and why.

I see you're still refusing to be moderator of the Ireland board, despite your interest.  :o

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 09:00:39 PM »
It appears that copper-plated steel 1p and 2p coins were first issued dated 1990.  Well, Wikipedia has it that way.  The source is this, which doesn’t actually state any start date:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/si/100/made/en/print

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 09:31:33 PM »
Well, it's good that people can read it here in the comments. I always have to make a judgment about what and what not to include, in these long topics of mine.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2018, 09:32:21 PM »
I have both compositions of each of 1p and 2p dated 1988 for Ireland. This was the changeover "year".

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2018, 09:43:20 PM »

UK data for 1p and 2p coins.



Another case of compare and contrast. So the Irish beat us Brits to it.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 09:08:20 AM »
Ireland must have been one of the first countries to use copper-plated coins then, if the changeover was 1988.

This website lists dates issued and mintage figures, but unfortunately fails to mention the changeover.

http://www.irishcoinage.com/DECCAT.HTM#dechpe

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 11:20:35 AM »
Such largely invisible changes are not considered important by some people. I am aware of the British changes but never thought about the situation in Ireland. I suppose one could create a large table showing when plated coins were introduced around the world.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Ireland"
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 11:55:38 AM »
IIRC, the advent of Cu-Ni plated coins is linked to the discovery of a technology to bond copper to copper-nickel, which is a fairly recent discovery. US quarters are clad from 1965. US cents are copper clad zinc only from 1985. Yet, I believe cents were a bigger problem.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.