Author Topic: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend  (Read 4291 times)

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Offline kumarrahul

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Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« on: October 26, 2011, 09:33:12 AM »
Hi,

Refer quote from wikipedia "Since the introduction of Octopus card in 1997, small value payments and purchases in Hong Kong are mostly done as Octopus transactions[citation needed]. As a result, usage of coins in Hong Kong has dropped significantly. The Hong Kong Government has not minted any new coins since 1998."

I find this quite disturbing.. from the perspective of coin collectors..  A similar thing has happened with 'circulated' stamp collectors.. as usage of stamps has reduced due to email, postage directly paid and printed stickers posted on the mailing envelopes.

a) Is this something that may define the future trend for coinage in general.. I have heard some of my colleagues abroad say that they seldom use coins nowadays as they do not need to bother with change and use their credit card for most transactions..
b) Is there any other country (apart from Kong Kong) that has succumbed to such a trend for not issuing any coins
c) Can we expect to see any new circulation coins for Hong Kong.. or there is evidence to indicate that this is now completely abandoned?

Would be happy to have the views of the esteemed members on this..

- Rahul

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 10:51:05 AM »
Hongkong population as per census of 2010 is approximately 7.097 million.

Cash transactions are seldom but coins are in abundant due to small territory and not withdrawn by Govt.

Still coins of 1970s & 1980s are available in circulation due to previous small denominations not minted since decade.

If some one doing cash transaction no such problem exist of "coins non availabilty at all" (unlikely in Indian situation - inspite of claims of increased percentage of coins mintage every year)

More Hong kong coins discussion can be read here 1 and 2


Cheers ;D
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http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Offline weepio

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 01:55:09 PM »
I was in the believe the Hong Kong People use Chinese currency today, hence Hong Kong returned to China in 1997. So they automatically don't issue coins any more. (Accept the big silver and gold coins, which I don't consider a real coin anyway)

How wrong one can be.

 ???

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 02:01:50 PM »
I was in the believe the Hong Kong People use Chinese currency today, hence Hong Kong returned to China in 1997. So they automatically don't issue coins any more. (Accept the big silver and gold coins, which I don't consider a real coin anyway)

How wrong one can be.

 ???


I have different expereince HK citizens use their own currency , Taiwan use their own currency and Mainland  China use their own currency .


However It is part of one country two systems policy
.



Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 04:26:41 PM »
A UK (and possibly general Western European) perspective on this:

It is true that use of cash has declined in favour of electronic payments and will continue to do so. Many people, myself included, rarely use cash to pay for something costing more than £10 or even £5. But the impact of this is more on banknotes than coins. In coin-rich economies like the eurozone and UK, coins are used every day for small purchases where it's either quicker to pay by cash than wait for a card and PIN to validate, or the vendor doesn't take card payments for less than a certain amount.

Hong Kong is an unusual currency territory, being mostly a built-up area with good communications and reliable phone, cable and electricity supplies. Most countries have remote areas where mobile coverage is patchy, and/or the electricity supply is prone to outages in bad weather, and/or small vendors don't see the benefit of paying high fees to card companies for relatively sparse levels of custom.

People have suggested over the years a kind of top-up-able 'cash card' that you wave at a sensor to buy things. Technology is such that these are now commonplace on public transport systems, but the crucial thing here is that such systems are closed systems, operated by one company or authority with one set of terminals expecting to handle a narrow range of likely payments. If every shop selling small items like newspapers, sandwiches, cans of Coke and such in a city the size of London were to become cashless, someone or some program in the system would have to keep track of every single transaction, customer, vendor, product and price, not to mention information and financial security and accuracy. I may be wrong, but I think the cost of setting that up and maintaining it, not to mention dealing with the consequences of it screwing up (remember, the UK and major IT projects do not have a happy relationship together), are just not worth it when there's a low tech, reliable method already available.

It's analogous to the discussion that comes up from time to time about road pricing. Government ministers tend every so often to outline plans with bells and whistles to charge us per km we drive in our cars by using all sorts of fancy satellite tracking and heaven knows what else. They quickly backtrack when it's pointed out to them that we have a per-km tax already in the form of petrol tax, which is paid and collected nice and simply every time you fill your car up.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 05:43:41 PM »
People have suggested over the years a kind of top-up-able 'cash card' that you wave at a sensor to buy things. Technology is such that these are now commonplace on public transport systems, but the crucial thing here is that such systems are closed systems, operated by one company or authority with one set of terminals expecting to handle a narrow range of likely payments.

Such a system already operates in the Netherlands. The only thing missing from the efforts to make us use it are firearms. Only the government likes it. It is used in parking meters, public libraries, public schools and universities and ministries. The highest court of the land decided that it is illegal to offer the system as the only option to pay, so it is now slowly disappearing. A comparable system in Denmark (Danmønt) failed. Similar systems in Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal and Spain are comatose.

There's hope for coins yet. :)

Peter
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 11:01:14 AM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Enlil

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 05:14:05 AM »
I think this a a load of hog wash, although there is an increase in non cash transaction a lot of small bussiness like cha chan teng, a lot of small bussineses do not take cards of any kind, and that is the same in Australia as well. I am going there tommorrow and like normal we use Octopus for transport only, and most other items we use cash. I believe the non minting of coins is partly due to the non cash transactions, the financial crisses of 1997 that lasted till about 2005 for HK, the high mintage to replace the queen series in 1997+ and maybe some other factors.

So when I get back I will tell you if things have changed.

Glen.

Offline kumarrahul

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2011, 06:32:20 AM »
Thanks all for your feedback.. Glen's feedback is encouraging.. hoping to see some new circulation issues from Hong Kong soon!

Offline Enlil

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 03:12:32 PM »
In Hong Kong I saw very little use of the octopus card outside of transport, most items were priced to the closest dollar, sometimes to 50 cnets with 10 and 20 cent prices in the big bussiness. So I saw very little use of the 10 and 20 cent coins. There was a lot on new 1998 coins in all denominations, so I would say they might mint new issue in a few years. The 10 dollar coin is still quiet common and a lot of new 1995 issue as well, they circulate with the paper 2002-05 issue which is still common and the polymer ssue which there were a lot of fresh 2007 issues.

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Hong Kong coins - a disturbing trend
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 06:34:09 AM »
In Hong Kong I saw very little use of the octopus card outside of transport, most items were priced to the closest dollar, sometimes to 50 cnets with 10 and 20 cent prices in the big bussiness. So I saw very little use of the 10 and 20 cent coins. There was a lot on new 1998 coins in all denominations, so I would say they might mint new issue in a few years. The 10 dollar coin is still quiet common and a lot of new 1995 issue as well, they circulate with the paper 2002-05 issue which is still common and the polymer ssue which there were a lot of fresh 2007 issues.

I fully agree and vouch on above statement.

During currency exchange some time they give 10 / 20 cents coins,  most of the lower denomination I got from exchange counters.

Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/