Differentiation between Proof/ Restrike/ Regular- British India Coinage

Started by brokencompass, August 03, 2011, 03:09:35 AM

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brokencompass

I was shown a 1/12 anna restrike but it looked very much like my regular BU 1/12 anna.
I was wondering how to distinguish between a restrike, proof and a regular Gem BU coin.
My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=130880

Rangnath

Why don't you post some images of what you do have and we can use that as a beginning? Using sharp well lit coin images would help.. say 50 kb or better.
richie

brokencompass

I am really bad at taking pictures so I had to borrow these pictures from the internet.
My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=130880

brokencompass

I have a coin that a friend sent me. I am trying to determine if it is a proof or a restrike or a regular coin. I will try to take some pictures of it when I get home today.
My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=130880

Figleaf

A quote from "British Commonwealth Coins" by Jerome Remick et al. may help:

The Bombay mint and the Calcutta mint have been restriking proof specimens of many of their coins almost since the day the mints opened. Usually, the buyer supplies the metal and pays a small fee for each coin he wants (...) Uncirculated coins, to the best of my knowledge, have not been restruck. It must be assumed that probably over 95% of the India proof coins on the market today are restrikes. Restrikes in proof show some or all of the following characteristics not shown on the original proof coins:

  • Small dots on their surface due to the filling in of small corrosion pits on the die caused by rust
  • The rim of the coin is flat or rounded whereas it is higher and sharper on the original proof coins
  • The metallic composition of the William IV silver coinage is different than even those issued or currence purposes. The metallic composition of the gold is slightly different and they show a deeper yellow color. The ring a coin has when coming to rest on a table is different between some of the William IV and pre 1862 Victoria silver coins issued originally and those issued as restrikes in proof
  • The proof restrike coins are more brilliant than the original proof coins. The silver restrikes tarnish rapidly. Am irridescent surface is shown on many of the copper restrikes
  • Original gold proofs have a yellow-red tinge. The restrikes have a greenish tinge

(...)

Proof restrikes have been made for many dates and could theoretically be made for all dates (...)


In other words, if your coin is not a proof, it is not a restrike. If it is a proof, it is likely to be a restrike. Look for repaired pock marks caused by rust and unsharp rims.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Coinsforever

Excellent differentiation by Jerome Remick and thanks peter for sharing with us...........


Cheers ;D

PS: Topic name could be

Differentiation between Proof/ Restrike/ Regular- British India Coinage
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

brokencompass

Thanks Peter for sharing the information. It would help in differentiating a proof and a restrike. I wish there was a proof 1/12 anna that I could find in order to tell the difference.

The First picture is a NGC attributed restrike and the second picture is an NGC attributed uncirculated coin. If I had the restrike in my hand, in the raw I wouldn't have recognized it as a restrike because there is nothing about it, screaming restrike/ proof to me.
My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=130880

Rangnath


Figleaf

I don't share your optimism on the abilities of US graders to "certify" non-US coins. Indeed, pictures can take you only so far and you'll have to have the coin before you to judge it.

To find the rust marks, hold the coin in different angles to the light. Some angles will reveal subtle discolouring in smooth fields, actually light effects caused by the repaired rust pits. If you have sharp eyes, you can judge whether the edge is flat or round by holding the coin up against a light source, so that the rim is silhouetted. If that doesn't work for you, use a big mamma magnifier. If that's not enough either, put the coin in a smooth, wooden (no plastic, it scratches) clothespin and look at the edge with a microscope. Don't enlarge too much or all rims will look ragged. If you are still in doubt, it's 95% sure it's a restrike :)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Coinsforever

Grading agencies usually use tools viz high optical magnifying glass or microscope for differentiation between such coins categories.

Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Prosit

I don't either.
Dale

Quote from: Figleaf on August 04, 2011, 11:47:53 AM
I don't share your optimism on the abilities of US graders to "certify" non-US coins. Peter

brokencompass

Let's assume they are ungraded coins and not graded by NGC. Given the two pictures from my post, I was wondering if anyone can see any differences between the two coins. Here's a huge picture of the supposed restrike

https://coins.ha.com/itm/india/world-coins/india-edward-vii-prooflike-1-12-anna-1908-c-/a/3020-27386.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

My goal for 2017 is to finish finish my British India copper collection (1/4 anna, 1/2 Pice and 1/12 anna) by year and Mintmark. Any help with missing coins in BU grades is highly appreciated.
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=130880

Figleaf

All that does is open the possibility that the hairlines I saw on the reverse are on the plastic, not on the coin. Sorry, brokencompass. Photos can't decide this issue. However, there's stil a 95% chance that it is a restrike.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

terryzman

I know this is a very old topic, but I came across it while researching the same topic.  Among the other resources I came across was info from the Fore Collection Sale at Baldwin's, available here:
https://www.baldwin.co.uk/fore.  Included are numerous side by sides of Original Proofs and Restrikes.  I know many of you are aware of the collection and the sale.  But I think it would be useful to share this here.  Copious high quality images from the sale are available on Coin Archives Pro or ACSearch, if you are a paid member of either.

- Terry

Figleaf

Nothing wrong with digging up an old thread, Terry, especially on a tricky subject. Good to have the link in the thread.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.