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Crowned Head and Deer. Identification

Started by Romario, August 02, 2011, 02:55:16 PM

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Romario

Hello!
Could you help me please with the identification? What is it?
Coin or token? Just souvenir?
Thanks in advance 

Figleaf

You come up with some difficult puzzles, Romario.  8)

I read de legend as LIONE DO GILLD and date 1201. The date is obviously bogus. This thing is much more modern. LIONE DO is probably Spanish ( lion of) and GILLD the key to the puzzle. Couldn't find anything happening in Spanish speaking lands in 1201 that might refer to this piece. That's as far as I got. Sorry.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Prosit

Which brings up the point that the earliest western-style dates on coins is sometime around 1500 or slightly earlier.
So anything dated earlier is a modern thingy.  Coins dated 32BC done't exist  ;D

Anyone remember more exactly the earliest wester-style date on coins ?
Dale



Quote from: Figleaf on August 04, 2011, 03:43:48 PM
.....I read de legend as LIONE DO GILLD and date 1201. The date is obviously bogus. .....Peter

Figleaf

Books have been written about that subject and there is a web site telling us that the earliest western date on a coin is ... 1166. However, it's in Roman numerals. The first date in latin numerals is 1424. This latter coin is preceded by coins dated in Arabic writing.

The evidence that this piece is not from 1201 is that it is a) too big, b) copper and c) in modern script.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Romario

I think I've already seen this token before...  :-\
I can't remember where
I thought it was somewhere at World of Coins website
The inscription may be in French: "LIGNE DU C...D"

FosseWay

My first thought on the language was along the same lines as Figleaf -- i.e. a Romance language. However, I'd favour Portuguese, as 'do' = 'of the' (masculine) in that language and doesn't AFAIK exist in Spanish.

As others have said, there's no way this was made in 1201 (AD or AH, for that matter). Therefore I wonder whether it's a prop made for a film set in that period. Some films play notoriously fast and loose with historical accuracy, after all. It could also be the kind of fantasy piece you sometimes get in historically themed tourist attractions. (For example, ISTR you can exchange modern sterling in the shop of the Yorvik Viking Centre in York for 'Viking coins' which you then spend in the shop/cafe; I also have a 'farthing' and a 'threepence' from a similar set-up at the Ironbridge Gorge museum in Shropshire.) However, such pieces in my experience look pretty new and shiny -- certainly my Ironbridge tokens are in almost EF quality and have obviously been struck on a modern coining press. This piece has either seen quite a lot of use or it's been made to look as if it has.

Prosit

I feel the same way.  It looks very familiar.
Dale

Quote from: Romario on August 04, 2011, 06:54:50 PM
I think I've already seen this token before...  :-\
I can't remember where

Bookworm

Quote from: FosseWay on August 06, 2011, 11:15:21 PM
My first thought on the language was along the same lines as Figleaf -- i.e. a Romance language. However, I'd favour Portuguese, as 'do' = 'of the' (masculine) in that language and doesn't AFAIK exist in Spanish.

The language is definitely not portuguese. You're right about the meaning of 'do', but the complete legend is not portuguese. Also, the style of the coin (or token) is completely wrong for a portuguese coin. I can't remember a deer ever being represented on a portuguese coin, from roman times until the present. The bust is also wrong, I can only remember seeing such crude busts on Portuguese India coins.
I'm no expert in portuguese tokens, but all I've ever seen dated from the 19th century or later and were modern looking.

I think we can rule out Portugal or any portuguese colony as the origin of this coin or token.

Hope this helps.

Aldo