Oord 1750??

[arneman]

I found a new coin in a whole jar of coins I got. It looks a lot like my 1726 oord (http://www.omnicoin.com/coin_view.aspx?id=937544)

So here's an image of my new coin, I think it's dated 1750:

[bart]

This is also a oord (liard) from Liege, but this time in the name of John Theodore of Bavaria, prince-bishop of Liege 1744-1763.

Legends are: I(ohannes) THEOD(ous) CAR(dinalem) D(ei) G(ratia) BAU(ariae) D(ux), John Theodore, cardinal, by the grace of God duke of Bavaria
and on the other side the legends continue: EP(iscopus) ET PRIN(ceps) LEO(dinium) DUX B(ullionensis) M(arquis) F(ranchimontanis) C(omes) L(ossensit et) H(ornensis), meaning bishop and prince of Liege, duke of Bouillon, marquis of Franchimont, count of Loon and Horn.

The KM#number is KM#155, Peter can give you the Vanhoudt#number.

Bart

[arneman]

Thanks for your quick reply, I hope Peter sees this so he can give me the Vanhoudt number

[Figleaf]

You don't say anything about size. If it is about the same size as the previous coin (23 mm.), it is also an oord, Vanhoudt G 1353. If it is larger coin (28 mm.) it is a double oord, Vanhoudt G 1351.

The arms on the reverse are the same. Those on the obverse are the family arms of John Theodore. In the first and second quarter Bavaria, in the third and fourth quarter the Pfalz (Palatinate). The titel of elector Palatinate was very important to the house of Wittelsbach, that ruled Bavaria, not only because it gave them another vote in the imperial "elections", but also because the count Palatinate was vicarius, the "deputy emperor", becoming temporary emperor when the emperor was sick, dead or otherwise incapable of exercising his functions.



At this time, Bavaria was locked in a great struggle with Austria over the dominance of the German empire. The Habsburg archdukes of Austria had almost automatically been "elected" emperor for centuries. However, Habsburg power was waning and Wittelsbach smelled a chance. Its ambition would be crushed in the war of the Austrian succession (1740-1748), but relations between Habsburg and Witelsbach were tense.

John T was in an awkward position. He was a Wittelsbach, archbishop-elector of Cologne and Prince-Bishop of Luik, a powerful enemy of Habsburg. However, at the same time, he led a catholic front-line state that acted as a buffer between France and the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands, a protestant state. John T would rather spite his political enemy than his religious enemy, though.

Forced by the cost of the war of the Austrian succession, Austria issued new, lighter silver coins, withdrawing the old ones. Silver coins of 2, 1 and 1/2 schelling/escalin were recalled. However, John T made sure to offer 14 oord for an old silver schelling, while the Austrians paid only 12. The silver coins were paid for with copper pieces like your oord, struck in enormous quantities, but light weight. Luik copper circulated in the Austrian Netherlands, so this action deprived the Austrians of the silver of the old coins plus saddled them with a large stock of light coppers they hadn't even issued.

Bad call. It was peace now and the Habsburgs were still strong enough to win in court. The Austrians took John T before the imperial court. The judge was a friend of Habsburg, the plaintiff was Habsburg, the advocate-general owed his job to Habsburg and John T was wrong. No Wittelsbach could have won. The court took away Liege's right to strike coins in the name of the Prince-Bishop. Afterwards, the only coins of Liege are sede vacante issues that are more like gimmicks for pilgrims, tourists and important visitors than coins (Vanhoudt G 1357-1368)

Peter

[arneman]

Just measured it and it's the 23 mm coin. Thanks a lot Peter!

[translateltd]

Interesting history behind these  - I never knew the story behind their discontinuance. 

I'm curious about the terms used for the denominations, though: doesn't KM use the French names rather than oord / double oord?  I assume both are correct in any case, depending on whether you call the place of issue Luik or Liege :-)

[bart]

Interesting history behind these  - I never knew the story behind their discontinuance. 

I'm curious about the terms used for the denominations, though: doesn't KM use the French names rather than oord / double oord?  I assume both are correct in any case, depending on whether you call the place of issue Luik or Liege :-)

Indeed : oord is the Flemish/Dutch denomination name; liard is the French name for the same denomination.
As was the case in the Austrian Netherlands, or in nowadays Belgium, the prince-bishopry of Liege was bilingual. French was spoken in the southern part of the prince-bishopry, in the parts which belong now to the Belgian provinces Liege and Luxembourg. Flemish was spoken in the northern part, now lying in the Belgian and Dutch provinces of Limburg.
Also: Luik is the flemish name of the Fierce City, Li?ge is the french name. The City's official nickname is "the Fierce City", "la Cit? Ardente" in french, "de Vurige Stede" in flemish.

Bart