$1 Coins Fail to Circulate (Again)

[kena]

I moved to the UK in 1998 from the US.  Had no problem adjusting to the fact that a £1 note did not exist.  Had a harder time adjusting to the fact that they had a 20 pence coin, so you needed five of them to make a £1 unlike needing four 25 cent coins to make a $1.

Never had a problem with fake £1 coins....just spend any £1 coin regardless of how beat up or crap it looks and we have seen some very ugly £1 coins.

I think to the average member of the public ignores that fact that some £1 might be fake and no one takes a 2nd look where I live in southern England.  Now try to use a Scottish banknote or a £50 Bank of England banknote and you will get a reaction from the store clerk.

Our coin of choice for parking meters are 50 pence, 20 pence, and 10 pence.

Ken

[Bimat]

Just found this interesting article.

Some US Dollar Coins are Illegal to Own in the US

Jun. 30 2011 - 9:50 am

At least, if everyone was taking the law seriously, some recently issued US dollar coins would be illegal to own or use inside the United States.

This is a slightly complex story but one I find amusing, So bear with me here.

The first step is that we have the Helms Burton Act. In it's essentials is says that no one is allowed to bring into the US, or to use in the US, anything made from Cuban resources that were nationalised after the Revolution without compensation being paid to the American owners. It's a toughening up of the embargo of the island.

It's such a toughening up that executives of companies that do trade with Cuba and in materials from such assets are barred from entering the USA.

OK, that's fine, even if there are a large number of us who think that the embargo strengthens the Castro Brothers. US law is indeed US law.

One of those assets that was nationalised, without what Helms Burton considers sufficient compensation, was the nickel mine at Moa Bay. This is now run by Sherritt International, a Canadian company. They very specifically do not sell in the US for this very reason. While they process the ore from Cuba in Saskatchewan they sell the nickel produced in Canada, Asia and Europe, not the USA. For that nickel, and items made from that nickel, would be illegal to import into, or use in, the US.

One long running amusement in the world of metals has been that the Canadian Mint purchases their nickel to make the Canadian coinage from from that very Sherritt plant. Indeed, the company was the guiding light behind the development of the C$ 1 coin, the "loonie". Which means that bringing a pocket full of Canadian change into the US is in fact a breach of the Helms Burton Act: not something that anyone ever bothers about of course. For along the border itself Canadian and US coins generally circulate together: no one really bothers all that much about getting a Canadian or US nickel in their change, they're treated as much the same currency in small amounts.

However, I've just realised that this goes a little further:

Sherritt Gordon/Westaim, Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, Canada, No longer produces coinage blanks. Blanks made by Westaim were provided by the Canadian mint to the US Mint during the production ramp up in 1998 and 1999 in anticipation of monetary shortages due to the Y2K event and the introduction of the new one dollar coin.

(A coin blank is the piece of metal which is then stamped with the design to make the actual coin.)

That new dollar coin being, I think, the Sacagawea dollar (it is possible that it was the last issue of the Susan B. Anthony rather than the Sacagawea).

So, we have the nickel salts coming from Cuba, from property nationalised and not compensated for. Refined in Saskatchewan and then supplied to the US Mint for the production of the dollar coins . To produce coins which, strictly speaking, it would be illegal to release for circulation in the United States.

All of which means, I think, that if we're to take the rule of law seriously then the directors and managers of the US Mint should be turning themselves in for breaching the Helms Burton Act. Not that I'd want them to do that of course, despite it being something of a sight to see.

Or we could conclude that sometimes the law is an ass. Rather your choice as to which way you want to go here.

Source: Forbes

[villa66]

I moved to the UK in 1998 from the US.  Had no problem adjusting to the fact that a £1 note did not exist.  Had a harder time adjusting to the fact that they had a 20 pence coin, so you needed five of them to make a £1 unlike needing four 25 cent coins to make a $1.

Never had a problem with fake £1 coins....just spend any £1 coin regardless of how beat up or crap it looks and we have seen some very ugly £1 coins.

I think to the average member of the public ignores that fact that some £1 might be fake and no one takes a 2nd look where I live in southern England.  Now try to use a Scottish banknote or a £50 Bank of England banknote and you will get a reaction from the store clerk.

Our coin of choice for parking meters are 50 pence, 20 pence, and 10 pence.

Ken

Interesting stuff!

v.

[<k>]

I moved to the UK in 1998 from the US.  Had no problem adjusting to the fact that a £1 note did not exist.  Had a harder time adjusting to the fact that they had a 20 pence coin, so you needed five of them to make a £1 unlike needing four 25 cent coins to make a $1.
Ken

But you only need three coins (two x 2p + one penny) to make up five pence, against five "pennies" in the US. 

[villa66]

But you only need three coins (two x 2p + one penny) to make up five pence, against five "pennies" in the US. 

\]

Only three coins, but of two types. Such bother....

v.

[<k>]

\]

Only three coins, but of two types. Such bother....

v.

Well, the old sixpence used to circulate as a 2½p coin until 1980. But if variety taxes you, how about we abolish all the US coins apart from the cent? And what about your marriage? One marriage, two sexes. How do you ever cope, Villa?   

[villa66]

Well, the old sixpence used to circulate as a 2½p coin until 1980. But if variety taxes you, how about we abolish all the US coins apart from the cent? And what about your marriage? One marriage, two sexes. How do you ever cope, Villa?   

Two sixpences? If it was 30 years ago we'd be in business. And about the variety thing, you mistake me--all I was saying is that I don't have see any great difficulty in counting all the way to five!

v.

[kena]

I think that getting rid of coins such as the 1 cent/1 pence and 2 pence makes sense.  Hate having a bunch of 1 pence/2 pence coins in my pocket.

Been to several countries with all prices are rounded up or down to the near 5 with no problems.   Namibia is nice for example, they do a 5 cent, 10 cent, 50 cent, dollar, and 5 dollar coin while in the UK I could have 1 pence, 2 pence, 10 pence, 20 pence, 50 pence, pound and 2 pound.  5 coins vs 7 coins....I rather carry around 5 different coins.

Back in the late 70's/early 80's I worked in a shop in the US where we were allowed to round so we did not use 1 cent coins at all and rarely 5 cents.

We wanted more dimes, nickels, and quarters in the hopes of getting silver.

We did actually did keep half dollar coins in the register (no silver ones).

Ken

[augsburger]

I just want to know how many countries actually changed their currency around because the people wanted it, and how many did it because it just made sense and they thought that they were elected on that basis, to do things that make sense!

[Bimat]

Some in Congress Seek to End Presidential Dollar Series

By Debbie Bradley, Numismatic News
July 29, 2011

It was no secret, but once a National Public Radio report on the $1 billion in dollar coins taking up space in Federal Reserve vaults got the public's attention in late June, talk has focused on what to do about it.

Asking the American public to spend them hasn't worked.

Asking the U.S. Mint to quit producing them won't work either, because minting of the coins is required by law.

So two lawmakers have introduced legislation to revoke the law that has required the production of Presidential dollars since 2007.

Lest anyone wonder about her intent, Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., has titled her bill "Wasteful Presidential Coin Act of 2011." Introduced on July 19, H.R. 2593 calls for termination of the Presidential $1 Coin Program.

On the same day, U.S. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., introduced S. 1385 to eliminate the program. "Even though many in Congress, including myself, hoped that dollar coins would eventually save taxpayers money, it's turned out to be one of those unnecessary and, quite frankly, wasteful programs that we should eliminate," Vitter said.

The Presidential $1 Coin Program directs the U.S. Mint to produce $1 coins with portraits of U.S. Presidents on the obverse. Beginning in 2007, four coins a year were to be produced, honoring the Presidents in chronological order.

The intent was to inspire the American public to spend the new $1 coins, because folks hadn't exactly warmed up to using the Sacagawea dollars that had been in circulation since 2000.

But to make sure the Sacagawea dollar will still be minted, the law requires that one-fifth of all $1 coins produced be Sacagawea coins.

So what effect would elimination of the Presidential $1 program have on the Mint?

"A significant amount of seigniorage we would have to consider would be in jeopardy," said Tom Jurkowsky, Mint director of public affairs.

It costs the Mint about 32 cents to produce a Presidential dollar, which it sells at face value to the Federal Reserve for $1. The 68-cent margin the Mint makes on the transaction is the seigniorage.

But chances are the Mint would make up some of the seigniorage loss with increased production in quarters, but demand for that denomination is currently depressed.

The final decision is in the hands of lawmakers.

"Whatever we do, make, produce – whether circulation coinage or medals – it's all directed by Congress," Jurkowsky said. "We will do whatever we are told to do."

Source: Numismaster

[akona20]

Stop printing the one dollar note.

[chrisild]

Guess it is simply a different attitude regarding cash. In some countries it is perfectly normal to use both coins and notes as means of payment - and in such cases it is also possible to replace a paper denomination that is not worth much any more with a coin. In other countries, coins are basically change that you get back and then throw in some jar - you do not really keep them in a wallet and spend them.

As the US is basically in the second group, it would indeed make sense to "shrink" that $1 coin series. In my opinion they should not stop the Presidential Dollars program; would look odd to come to a screeching halt somewhere in the late 19c. But why not make the issues that are scheduled for the future (2012-) for collectors only, just like the First Ladies pieces?

Christian

[ciscoins]

Stop printing the one dollar note.

The best decision is to withdraw them, together with 2 and 5 dollar notes.
And introduce bimetallic 2 and 5 dollar coins.

[Alan Glasser]

I have YET to receive a $1 coin in change. I don't collect them, have no idea why they issue them, and never see them unless I specifically ask at a bank. Then they might look in their change drawer. One bank recently was offering them for 99 cents. Gee...when I was a kid...we could get silver dollars for 99 cents from the bank any time we made a deposit...sometimes FREE if we opened a new account. This goes WAY before those junky IKE dollars came out...WAY before!!!  I have several of thr 40% silver IKES...never liked them...still don't. Give me a Morgan or a Peace dollar anything.

Alan MA

[augsburger]

I have received dollar coins in my change, in fact I was in transit from Latin America to the UK for about 12 hours and got THREE dollar coins in my change!! Two of them presidents, washington and pierce!