Author Topic: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry  (Read 7704 times)

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Offline Rangnath

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Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« on: December 10, 2007, 06:32:10 PM »
I've enjoyed attempting to discover the identity of this copper or brass coin.  It is 1.2 grams and 10 mm across. 
On the obverse, we may have either a Shardula (a stylized tiger or tiger like beast) or stylized human or deity.  On the reverse, at times, under a play of light, I can become convinced that the coin depicts a conch.  I looked through Travancore coins and found nothing like the obverse.  The Conch though was used extensively. 
In Dutch Pondicherry, there were copper coins in which the obverse appears quite similar to my coin. But the reverse seems to be simpler. Could my coin have been struck twice on the reverse?  Did coins as small as this one ever receive such treatment?
I'll post some images of my coin and others.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 10:20:55 PM by Rangnath »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 06:43:43 PM »
The following is an example of a Shardula.  There seem to be many more examples on silver than on copper. This one is a Venad Chera coin from 1500 to 1650.  I believe that Travancore and Venad Chera may be either the same or over lapping designations. 

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 06:48:06 PM »
The following is a coin designated as the following:
Indo-Dutch (VOC)
Pondicherry
copper
10 mm in diameter
1.64 grams
Minted in Pondicherry in Dutch Occupation.
Catalogue ref/s 1706, PS-1718

The striking similarity is, of course, with the obverse of my coin.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 06:49:37 PM »
the reverse?  That seems quite different.
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 08:35:47 AM »
The examples you show have a dotted border, while your coin doesn't seem to have one. You find the dotted border on the larger coins of the VOC struck in Negapatnam, such as the duit, Scholten 1244 - KM 28, but not on the small cash (Scholten 1248) struck in Pondicherry. My guess is that the dots were omitted to gain space on the small flan. Your coin also has the size of the cash.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck ... well ... it just may be a duck!

obv: the Kali of Negapatnam
rev: Puduchheri in Tamil characters

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 06:11:55 PM »
I think you're right Peter!  When I rotate the reverse, it appears much more like the example you gave of Scholten 1248.  I think my reading of it as a "conch" was due to the degraded surface. 
I think its a DUCK!!!!
richie

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 01:34:35 AM »
Peter,
the weight of this coin bothers me a bit.  My old, hard to read, torn and abused catalog says something like 25.7 to 28.2 g for Km 28, a stuiver.  It lists km 25 as a 1/2 duit which weighs 1.6 to 1.8 g.  My coin weighs 1.2 g. 
the coin in the Fitzwilliam museum (I can no longer use the term without thinking of parentage  ::) )
is listed as an Indo-Dutch one cash coin.  What is you guess about the catalog number of my coin? Is my coin a 1/2 duit, 1 duit or neither of the two?
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Travancore or Pondicherry?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 01:50:33 AM »
That weight is about right for a cash (a tiny coin). The (half and double) stuivers are of course much heavier and larger.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline lusomosa

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 12:02:11 PM »
Here are some images of the coins of :
2 stuivers scho 1243
1 stuiver   "      1244
duit          "      1245
1/2 duit    "      1246
and image with several cash.

All from Negapatnam. The Type for the this cash is diferent from the Stuivers and Duits.
If there are cash coins with the same type as the others I dont know yet. I'll try to find out.

LP

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2007, 04:19:45 PM »
LP, what a great collection of images! Thanks so much for posting them.
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2007, 05:51:49 PM »
Agreed. These are museum quality pieces. Super pictures of exquisite coins! Made my day. The cash you are showing are Negapatnam cash (N or retrogade N mintmark), for Pondicherry cash, see Scholten 1248. You'll see the obverse resemblance.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 06:44:33 PM »
Peter and LP,
would it help to split LP's images from the one I originally posted ? Would it make it easier to access in our archives?
LP, I'm sure I can look this up, but would you mind giving me the size of one of the coins you posted (the duit?). 

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2007, 08:20:28 PM »
You're the moderator, Rangnath. I don't see the harm of leaving them in one thread.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2007, 08:45:23 PM »
One thread it is. Thanks to LP, it is thread of the finest silk.
richie

Offline lusomosa

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Re: Indo Dutch Cash of Pondicherry
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2007, 09:56:21 AM »
?'ve been away fore some days, I'll give you the answer shortly Richie,

LP