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Comments on "King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics"

Started by Figleaf, September 23, 2009, 01:07:41 AM

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Figleaf

More on thrift. The "silver" threepenny bits were unpopular and found too small. This was a familiar issue for other European countries. Belgium found the solution first, by introducing copper-nickel coins. These were not popular, as people  took them for large silver coins, no matter how different in design they were and even when they wre made much thicker. Only when a hole was added were they readily accepted. That was not a good solution in the Netherlands, because the Mint wouldn't bore a hole in the queen's portrait and wouldn't take the portrait off either. Their eventual solution was a square (with rounded corners) coin.

Slowly, silver disappeared from coins, so the old silver coins got to be copper-nickel and metal colours were introduced as a distinction between denomination. It was only at this point that Britain started considering to replace the threepence. In your pictures, you can see how they wrestled with the Dutch solution and came up with another different shape. At the same time, differentiation by colour was introduced.

So why did it take so long in Britain to do what other countries had done often decades before? Thrift. The threepence was popular in two different areas. Christmas puddings and church collections. I am not sure why only a threepence could be used in Christmas pudding. Maybe the thought was that if it was swallowed, it would be small enough not to cause internal damage and that it could be left un-recuperated afterwards without a major financial loss. For church collections, the threepenny was a great solution, because you were socially obliged to come up with silver coin. Copper was considered unthinkable. Not even three bronze pennies would be considered the same as a silver threepenny. People would set aside the threepence coins received for the Sunday collection, as the coin did not show up often.

The principal reason the silver threepence was at last replaced was pressure of the British Railroads. They used massive amounts of the coins and lost many more threepence coins then other denominations, due to its size.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

<k>

When I posted the images of the crowned effigy of King Edward VIII, I had forgotten that in reality he was never crowned. So how did the artist manage to draw him wearing the crown? What is the protocol for all this? Is the uncrowned monarch even allowed to wear the crown before the Coronation? I don't actually know.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

The king sat for Paget and Metcalfe for the uncrowned portrait and the photographic material MacMillan used shows him uncrowned. I have not found indications that there was a sitting for the crowned portraits prepared by Metcalfe and MacMillan.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

<k>

Quote from: Figleaf on July 07, 2011, 03:37:15 PM
I have not found indications that there was a sitting for the crowned portraits prepared by Metcalfe and MacMillan.

Peter

So you could say that these are a sort of numismatic "fantasy" in themselves.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

I guess they involved fantasy in that the king may not actually have worn the crown and the artists just superimposed the crown on the head, but the artists did have a commission to prepare designs for circulation coins from the government. The king, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the deputy master of the mint (the person who actually runs it) and the Royal Mint Advisory Committee were all involved in the project.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Overlord

Quote from: coffeetime on November 25, 2011, 09:02:42 PM
Various Indian states also issued coins in Edward's name, in the local script.
The Jodhpur coins citing Edward VIII are illustrated here. The other Indian states to issue coins in his name are Jaipur and Kutch.

Coinsforever

Quote from: coffeetime on November 25, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
I used to think that Edward VIII was a numismatic non-entity,

Me too thinking the same way  due to short reign and uncrowned status If I'm not wrong.

However some common wealth nations had devoted few coins to him.

Interesting thread.
Cheers ;D

 
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

<k>

Quote from: aan09 on November 26, 2011, 11:37:34 AM
...and uncrowned status If I'm not wrong.

Yes, he was the king who was never crowned. And his brother George VI lost his title as Emperor after India became independent; so there was still a British Empire, but after that it was an empire without an emperor.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Overlord

The Indian Security Press, Nasik had prepared the design for the King Edward VIII stamps to be issued in India at the time of his coronation, but the work did not proceed beyond essay designs.

malj1

Epa450.jpg  Epa451.jpg


Abdication medal of Edward VIII from Pinches London.

Gilt - presumably brass or copper - 35mm.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Overlord

In Australia, a £1 note showing the portrait of Edward VIII was designed but never issued.


<k>

Quote from: Overlord on November 27, 2011, 01:48:15 PM
In Australia, a £1 note showing the portrait of Edward VIII was designed but never issued.



Another rarity. So, while I hunt for unrealised coin designs, it seems you know where to look for the never-issued banknote designs.  8)
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

<k>

Apparently the interlocking rings on Edward VIII's pattern three pence coin are known as Saint Edmund's rings.

Does anybody know the significance of these?
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

Now when King Offa came to Saxony, Edmund was appointed to accompany him; and the old king was immediately struck by the beauty, both physical and spiritual, of the young prince, and by the zeal of his service. He applied to him the words of Solomon: "Hast thou seen a man swift in his work? He shall stand before kings and shall not be in obscurity" (Proverbs 22.29). Then in the presence of the whole court he embraced him and, putting a ring on his finger, said: "My most beloved son Edmund, accept this memento of our kinship and mutual love. Remember me as one grateful for your service, for which with God's permission I hope to leave you a paternal inheritance." Edmund's father hastened to explain to him the significance of this ceremony: was he prepared to accept King Offa as his adoptive father in place of his natural father? On Edmund's acceptance, Offa tearfully drew from his finger his ring - in fact, it was a coronation ring - and said: "Son Edmund, observe closely this ring, notice its design and seal. If, when I am far away, I intimate to you by this token my wish and desire, do you without delay execute my order. As the noble assembly here bears witness, I intend to regard you as my most beloved son and heir."

Then Offa continued on his pilgrimage. Having arrived in the Holy Land and venerated the Holy Places, he set out on his return journey via Constantinople. But as he was sailing through the Hellespont, he fell ill; so, disembarking at the monastery of St. George, he received the Holy Mysteries and prepared for death. His last act was to entrust his kingdom of East Anglia to Edmund, ordering his nobles to take his ring to Saxony as a token of his will. Then he reposed in peace and was buried in St.George's Bay on the Hellespont in the year 854.


Source: http://www.orthodox.net/western-saints/edmund-martyr-king-of-east-anglia.html
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

andyg

Nothing like a bit of fiction to liven up the day - nice subject for a coin though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edmund

QuoteEdmund was a king of East Anglia,[2] of whom almost nothing is known. The earliest authority for him is Abbo of Fleury, who wrote Passio Santi Eadmundi for the monks of Ramsay in the 980s. Abbo stated that Edmund came "ex antiquorum Saxonum nobili prosapia oriundus".[3] This has confused later translators into thinking that he was of continental Old Saxon origin, but according to the historian Steven Plunkett, Edmund was East Anglian, a country settled by Saxons.[4]

Edmund's fictitious continental origins were later expanded into legends which spoke of his parentage, his birth at Nuremberg, his adoption by Offa of Mercia, his nomination as successor to the king and his landing at Hunstanton on the North Norfolk coast to claim his kingdom.[5]

De Infantia Sancti Edmundi, a fictitious 12th century hagiography of Edmund's early life by Geoffrey of Wells, represented him as the youngest son of 'Alcmund', a Saxon king of Germanic descent. 'Alcmund' is a semi-historical figure who may never have existed.[6] Other accounts state that his father was the king he succeeded, Æthelweard of East Anglia, who died in 854, apparently when Edmund was a boy of fourteen.

Quite fitting I suppose a fantasy subject for a fantasy coin!
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....