Ottoman Empire, Akche AH 918 Qustantiniyah

[bubba]

hello.

this coin is found in utrecht (city in the center of holland)

we need a I.D of this coin please

diam= 0,8 mm
material= silver.

i hope this is the right place for the coin to post

gr bubba

[bruce61813]

I can't tell you about the coin, I know it is Islamic, but that's all. I did re-orient it, so the left side reads correctly. The shows the date.

Bruce

[Figleaf]

I don't know, but that won't stop me from speculating. I think the first line on the left is "zuriba" (struck), which would make the second line the name of the mint. I read "f" or "q" followed by "sh", which might be the first syllable of "qushtantiniya" (Istambul), which would make this (in view of its size) a Turkish aqse. I am reasonably certain of the zuriba, but all the rest is speculative...

Peter

[translateltd]

I'm skeptical about your "q" - I think there's a vertical line there making it a palatalised th (like a Roman b with a dot).  Very hard to tell with an item in this grade.  I thought the first word was zuriba, too, so we're agreed that far, at least :-)

[Figleaf]

Could the line be what's left of "fi" (at)?

Peter

[translateltd]

I can't make myself see that :-)

Rather than engaging in too much conjecture, I would recommend an e-mail to islamic_coins@yahoogroups.com (you might need to register first) - there are experienced collectors and native speakers from some of these interesting places who can probably tell you immediately.

I will probably do the same with Richie's gold piece if my friend in Teheran can't identify it straight away. 

[Figleaf]

Good networking, Martin. Meanwhile, I sent pics of both coins to Jan Lingen, a foremost expert on Arabic coins in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, he's in the middle of a move to a new house, but I'm sure we'll get there.

Peter

[Figleaf]

This coin was identified by Lutz Ilisch, University of T?bingen, who was contacted by Jan Lingen as follows:

"the coin is an Ottoman aqche of Selim I from Qustantiniya 918AH"

Very nice determination indeed! Now how did a coin struck in 1513AD in Istambul end up in the Netherlands?

Peter

[Figleaf]

And here is a further reaction from Mr. Lingen:

I have looked up this coin in Mitchiner, World of Islam. He illustrates an identical akche (or aqche), #1250. The ruler is Selim I ibn Bayazid (AH918-926/AD1512-1520). Qustantiniya is Constantinople. The coin is dated 918AH, the first year of reign, a tradition on Ottoman coins.

First time for me to see Ottoman cins from this period. Congratulations, Bubba.

Peter

[bubba]

thanks for the information 

the coin was found in utrecht (the center of holland)

in that period utrecht was a trading place for business man,from all over europe

i have found coins in utrecht from france\england\italy\?germany\and this coin of contantinople

so thats very interesting

thanks for the info of this coin [this coin is found by a friend of mine]

gr bubba

[Figleaf]

Finding this coin in the Utrecht area has historical implications, Bubba. I would not have expected such far-reaching trade contact in this era and I can't see how it would have been brought in by soldiers, the usual explanation. Was it notified to Numis, the Dutch coin finds data base?

Peter

[bubba]

Finding this coin in the Utrecht area has historical implications, Bubba. I would not have expected such far-reaching trade contact in this era and I can't see how it would have been brought in by soldiers, the usual explanation. Was it notified to Numis, the Dutch coin finds data base?

Peter

its not notified yet figleaf

but i wil ask  him to do that o.k

gr bubba

[muntenman]

With the succeeding as the Ottoman Empire became a reliable trade partner for oversea trade (like VOC) there were a lot of Ottoman people gathering in the streets of Utrecht and Amsterdam to establish commerce with several chambers of the V.O.C. Perhaps an ofiicial lost this coin on the way to a meeting? Remember the beginning of the trade in Tulips....

[Figleaf]

We're talking about the time between the Hook and Cod civil war (Hoeken en Kabeljouwen) that ended around 1489 and the war of independence that started in 1568, less than a century of calm, interrupted by the Burgundy conquests. War against the Duke of Burgundy raged in the duchy of Gelre until 1543. The Ottomans are threatening Vienna and their clothes set them apart as non-Christians. It is highly unlikely indeed that an Ottoman trader setting out for an unruly backwater like the bishopric of Utrecht woud have survived even half of the trip.

A much more likely scenario would be a Venetian merchant. Venice was close to the borders of the Ottoman empire and silk-route contacts existed. The main Venetian trade office was in Bruges, but they were expanding and looking for new opportumities, in Poland, in North Germany and why not in Utrecht? It's all speculation, but a Venetian in Utrecht after 1513 would be very interesting for Dutch economic history.

Peter

[muntenman]

Thanks for reminding me... long time ago... I agree to the Venice merchants... I have read about him in the excellent Dutch-Belgian-French comic series Vasco edition Lombard....