Lucien Bazor, French engraver

[Figleaf]

They are very hard to distinguish, but the coins dated 1964 and later in my collection have the owl of Raymond Joly, not the wing.

Peter

[<k>]

Here is the reverse of a Cameroon 10 francs coin, showing Bazor's trademark wing sign.

[<k>]

Here is his unsuccessful 5 francs design of 1933 that you were talking about, Figleaf.

[<k>]

This is the only photo I could find of the great man himself. He was born in Paris in 1889 and died in 1974. He attended the École des Beaux-Arts in Paris and exhibited at the Salon of the Société des Artistes Français, winning the Prix de Rome in 1923. He joined the Paris Mint in 1930, where he was Chief Engraver from 1931 to 1958.

[andyg]

I've an idea he was also responsible for the Cambodia 10, 20 and 50 Cents 1953-1959, certainly they were struck in Paris on 1,2 and 5 Franc blanks but I cannot find his signature on these...

[Figleaf]

The series is not signed, but they do carry the mark of chief engraver Raymond Joly. I scanned my coin to show you the attached image.

Peter

[andyg]

Interesting, the 1953 issues have different marks...

[andyg]

Here's another possible, this time Laos, again struck in Paris.

[Figleaf]

I think we have hit upon the reason why KM believes the 1953 series is different from the 1959 series. Anyway, you convinced me. It must be a series by Bazor. The 1952 Laos series is Bazor as well, I think, even though these are also unsigned: struck in Paris while Bazor was chief engraver there with Bazor's mark.

I just had a look at the French Indochina coins of the period. All are signed A. Patey, P. Turin or clearly designed by Lindauer. The exceptions are the "ETAT FRANÇAIS" coins dated 1942-1943. By that time, it must have been far too dangerous to ship coins from France to French Indochina, so my guess is that they were designed locally.

Peter

[andyg]

I think we have hit upon the reason why KM believes the 1953 series is different from the 1959 series.

I always thought this was to do with the 1953 issues being inscribed "Cents", whilst the 1959 issues being "Sen"

Anyway, you convinced me. It must be a series by Bazor. The 1952 Laos series is Bazor as well, I think, even though these are also unsigned: struck in Paris while Bazor was chief engraver there with Bazor's mark.

I just had a look at the French Indochina coins of the period. All are signed A. Patey, P. Turin or clearly designed by Lindauer. The exceptions are the "ETAT FRANÇAIS" coins dated 1942-1943. By that time, it must have been far too dangerous to ship coins from France to French Indochina, so my guess is that they were designed locally.

Peter

His marks are on the coins though, even if the 'common' side is signed....

[Figleaf]

On other coins, you also see that the chief engraver gets to use his mark (not his signature) on coins struck while he was in office, even if he didn't design them. Bazor was succeeded by Joly in 1958, which explains why the 1959 series has Joly's mark, while the 1953 series are marked by Bazor. The mark is no absolute proof that the chief engraver designed the coin, but it can be strong circumstantial evidence.

Torch 1896-1930 Henry Patey
Wing 1931-Oct. 1958 Lucien Bazor
Owl 1958-74 Raymond Joly
Dolphin 1974-94 Emile Rousseau
Bee 1994- Pierre Rodier

The above facts are taken from this link:

http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8.html

[africancoins]

With "facts" come exceptions...

I have 2 different coins - from a country other than France - they have the "Joly" owl but they are dated 1989. Can anyone except Figleaf and the poster currently calling himself Zombivore work out or remember the name place of the country that issued my two coins of 1989 ?

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

[Bimat]

I don/t have most of the coins designed by Bazor which are illustrated here but have a few from West African States.My honest opinion is that Raymond Joly did better work on designs of West African States' coins,especially the FAO series.But it's also true that there's little scope for a designer to show some art on coins of WAS,since the Taku symbol occupies most of the space..

Aditya

[Figleaf]

This has turned into another great thread. I wonder if we could do a similar one on Patey, just becauseI have plenty biographical info on him

Peter