Counterstamped coins used as military dog tags

[malj1]

Your question about INT. O. is Intelligence Officers. I was able to research Seaman Swindle's Career by checking out ship muster on Ancestory. I went to the local library and they hooked me up with the resources. You don't necessarily have to got to the national archives, especially now. You have the guys serves number. If you want or need help let me know.

Welcome and thanks for the info. I think the date 11 03 20 may be his date of birth? what do you think?

Ancestry is not available to me in this country other than paying a subscription which is not worthwhile for a one off search!

[brandm24]

Nice to see you here on WoC, caberney. I think these dog tags are really interesting too and I'm interested in seeing a picture of yours if you get a chance. Many thanks.

Bruce

[caberney]

Welcome and thanks for the info. I think the date 11 03 20 may be his date of birth? what do you think?

Ancestry is not available to me in this country other than paying a subscription which is not worthwhile for a one off search!

Would you like me to research him for you? caberney@yahoo.com  subject the name and serial number on the coin and I will see what I can do.

[caberney]

Nice to see you here on WoC, caberney. I think these dog tags are really interesting too and I'm interested in seeing a picture of yours if you get a chance. Many thanks.

Bruce

Had to do some cropping but I will try and provide a clearer picture later.

[brandm24]

Thanks, caberney.

Bruce

[malj1]

Would you like me to research him for you? caberney@yahoo.com  subject the name and serial number on the coin and I will see what I can do.

I don't have the coin I saw it only on eBay.



see it in Reply # 11

[caberney]

Fair Enough.

Do you remember what they were asking for it?  I am just sort of curious what the market is for a Coin turned Military ID from WWI or WWII. I know what I paid for mine so I am wondering if I paid too much or got a really good deal.

[malj1]

No I didn't notice what it sold for but usually make a decent price often beyond my bid.

[malj1]

Another WW1 British 3d is on eBay today although its an engraved love token this time...

We shall never know who Bill was and whether he makes it home after it all.

[caberney]

I don't have the coin I saw it only on eBay.



see it in Reply # 11

Well, I have done it. In the course of about an hour over lunch, I worked through the ancestory.com listing of Ship musters and identified that a Benjamin W. Nichols was born on 3 November 1920 and served aboard the USS Marblehead and then the USS Redfish. I could find that he served on the USS Marblehead through a battle that crippled her badly and perhaps a little while in the Atlantic as one of the ship's musters came from Brazil.  However he was part of the Original Crew of the USS Redfish at her commissioning in April of 1944 and stayed with her through 1948. He worked his way up from enlisted Fireman 2nd Class to a Motor Machinist Mate 1 Class Petty Officer.

I am not familiar with the Navy positions but he served from 1939 - 1948 and beyond probably, I just could not find any records during my short lunch.  The USS Redfish was a submarine (SS-395) and the USS Marblehead was a light cruiser (CL-12).

[malj1]

That's great that you found him and that he had returned safely from WW2.

I'm still curious about the INT. O. = Intelligence Officer. did you see anything about this part of his service?

[Figleaf]

he served on the USS Marblehead through a battle that crippled her badly

Battle of the Makassar Straits, February 1942. Marblehead was hit by two Japanese bombs, disabling her rudder and piercing her hull. She was provisionally repaired in successive ports and struggled back to the US East coast in a period of 2 months. Did service in the South Atlantic from Bahia (hence the Brazilian, possibly a pilot). Scrapped in 1945.

However he was part of the Original Crew of the USS Redfish at her commissioning in April of 1944 and stayed with her through 1948. He worked his way up from enlisted Fireman 2nd Class to a Motor Machinist Mate 1 Class Petty Officer.

As a fireman, Nichols must have been in the thick of the action to save Marblehead in and after Makassar. He may have had a quotation or a medal. His subsequent career and posting point at high appreciation. He is a very unlikely intelligence officer, though.

Peter

[brandm24]

According to the US Navy's own website listing of World War 2 abbreviations, "Int. O ." DOES stand for Intelligence Officer., but it's an Army rank or title and not Navy. It must either have another meaning on Nichols' tag or he served in the Army as well. I've heard numerous times of men serving in two different branches of the military, at times during the same conflict. My Uncle is a case in point. He served in both the Marine Corps and Navy.

Bruce

[caberney]

As the Marine Corp is (and always has been) part of the Navy it is very possible for this to happen as there was no Dept. of Defense (established in 1947 along with the Air Force; National Security Act of 1947) during World War II but two separate military Departments, the Department of the Army and the Department of the Navy. They were very much in competition with one another for funding and attention of the War Department and the Commander and Chief.  As the Army Air Force was part of the Army it was also possible for Air Force members in WWII to be recognized as part of the Air Force.

From Ship Muster Reports and the like I have been able to confirm that Benjamin W. Nichols assigned rates was F2C, F1C, MOMM1 and EN1 (Seaman Apprentice to Petty Office 1st Class)  I did discover where he was transferred from W1DC to W2DC but I am not sure exactly what those are.  He served aboard the USS Marblehead, a light cruiser, from 1939 - 1943ish. It was heavily crippled in 1942 and eventually taken out of commission. He was transferred to the USS RedFish, a submarine, as part of it's original crew in April 1944. Serving on her until at least 1948.

Aboard the USS Redfish he may have had many functional positions as well as his rate position. So the position of Intelligence Officer may have been a functional position and not a Rate or MOS (pay rank).

From https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2019/11/01/the-history-of-navy-rank-or-rate-enlisted-personnel/

"Petty officers – a term derived from the French petit, meaning "small" – were appointed by a ship's captain to fill specific roles onboard ship, and they did not retain their positions when they moved between ships. "

This may explain the INT. O.

[brandm24]

I just came across thie US Civil War dog tag for a Corp. James P. Manley. He enlisted in Co. D 57th Regiment of the New York State Volunteers in 1861.

Though these "store-bought" blanks are generally engraved with the soldier's information and were not  counterstamped I thought it would be appropriate to post it in this thread. The engraving on these pieces was often done by the regimental sutler.

I found no history of Manley's service except a record of his desertion at Frederick, Maryland on June 29, 1863.

Photos courtesy of Steve Hayden.

Bruce