Baroda - Paisa in the name of Khande Rao. ND

Started by asm, January 01, 2009, 06:11:08 AM

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asm

January 01, 2009, 06:11:08 AM Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 05:50:20 AM by asm
Please help identify this coin. It is aprox 14 mm x 14 mm and weighs 6.46g.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Rangnath

#1
January 01, 2009, 08:10:08 PM Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 08:12:46 PM by Rangnath
Wow, this is tough Amit.  I played with the obverse and decided that this looks better. Hmm, maybe I have it upside down?When I get a chance, I'll revisit coins from the vicinity of Gujerat. 
richie

asm

#2
January 03, 2009, 05:41:21 AM
Richie, thanks a ton. This definately makes some sense. I do agree with your view that it might be a coin from the Gujarat region.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Rangnath

#3
January 03, 2009, 07:18:13 AM
Gosh Amit.  I am not of much help to you about this one.  Scratch my well intentioned notion.  :-[
I'll keep my eyes open, but really, I am clueless about the attribution of this coin.
Richie

Overlord

#4
January 03, 2009, 08:16:38 AM
The closest I came was a 7 gram anonymous falus of Ala-ud-din Mahmud Shah I (Malwa Sultanate), with the reverse showing Fi-al-tarikh. Can't say I see an exact match though. My situation reminds me of an old Hindi joke: A family in a village recieved a telegram. Being illetrate, they took it to their Jamai (son-in-law), who everyone thought was a well-read person. The entire family sat around the Jamai in eager anticipation, waiting for him to read out the telegram. The poor Jamai had been to school only once. He stared hard at the telegram, trying to find anything that could help him get out this embarrassing situation. The only letter he could recognize in the entire damn telegram was something which looked vaguely like the letter "Ma". "But the teacher had written such a large letter on the black board, and this damn thing is so small...", he thought. Still thinking to himself, he whispered "Badi Ma nahi hai". Immediately, all the women burst into tears, crying out "Badi Ma, why did you leave us?" ("Badi Ma"=Grandmother; "Badi" also means large  ::))

Rangnath

#5
January 09, 2009, 06:00:32 PM
Overlord, I looked but could not find a coin of Mahmud I that looks similar to this one.  As for the joke, is this your way of suggesting that the coin might be a Posthumous Issue?   ;D
richie

Overlord

#6
January 10, 2009, 05:23:16 AM
I also find a vague similarity with the Mewar local issues, such as the one here, but our coin seems too heavy to be one of those.
Quote from: Rangnath on January 09, 2009, 06:00:32 PM
As for the joke, is this your way of suggesting that the coin might be a Posthumous Issue?   ;D
richie

Just suggesting that somethimes we may get lucky (as I do, many a times) without really having a clue  ;D. Consider this Zen Koan:

Provided he makes and wins an argument about Buddhism with those who live there, any wondering monk can remain in a Zen temple. If he is defeated, he has to move on.

In a temple in the northern part of Japan two brother monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.

A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teachings. The elder brother, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialogue in silence," he cautioned.

So the young monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.

Shortly afterwards the traveler rose and went in to the elder brother and said: "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."

"Relate the dialogue to me," said the elder one.

"Well," explained the traveler, "first I held up one finger, representing Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signifying Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing Buddha, his teaching, and his followers, living the harmonious life. Then he shook his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realization. Thus he won and so I have no right to remain here." With this, the traveler left.

"Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.

"I understand you won the debate."

"Won nothing. I'm going to beat him up."

"Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.

"Why, the minute he saw me he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we only have three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it!"

asm

#7
January 10, 2009, 10:20:45 AM
Overlord and Richie, Thanks for the interesting anecdotes. Makes learning fun.
Overlord, I do see some similarity in the coins but there is a huge difference in the weights. In fact the size of both Umarda mint paisa from Mewar and this coin are almost similar, only the thickness is very different. The metal is also almost the same - more like brass than copper - both have a gold like yellow colour. However all 10 or 12 coins of Umarda mint that I have, have a 'trishul' like figure which I do not see here. After Richie rotated the image I believe that one can see some sort of letters or characters on the coin. This is also not observed by me on the few coins of Umarda mint that I have.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Overlord

#8
January 10, 2009, 10:32:57 AM
Well, I'll just keep looking  ::)

asm

#9
January 10, 2009, 11:10:30 AM
Overlord, would you advise putting this coin up at ZENO?
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Overlord

#10
January 10, 2009, 01:28:47 PM
Quote from: asm on January 10, 2009, 11:10:30 AM
Overlord, would you advise putting this coin up at ZENO?
Whatever suits you, asm  :).

Rangnath

#11
January 10, 2009, 08:47:30 PM
The story you wrote Overlord, is a good one.  I've heard a Christian, Ancient Greek, and an Indian version of the same story. 

But I don't think that this coin is from Mewar. I don't understand the expression "the fabric of the coin", but the fabric of this coin seems different to me than those from Umarda.

The Obverse looks like it might be a double strike, making what letters might have been in evidence look cut up in two directions. 
richie

asm

#12
February 09, 2009, 05:49:51 AM Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 06:00:59 AM by asm
The mystery of this coin is solved. One of the local experts I met at the monthly coin exchange meet yesterday identified this coin as being a Paisa of Khande Rao Giakwad of Baroda. Another known dealer also concurred with that view. Yet another one said it was from Mewar. This morning I also saw the attribution done at ZENO, which confirms Baroda, Y#7.6. One more coin in its proper place.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

BC Numismatics

#13
February 09, 2009, 06:20:45 AM
Amit,
  When was this Barodan 1 Paisa coin struck?

Aidan.

asm

#14
February 09, 2009, 08:29:16 AM
Aidan,
There is no date on the coin but Khande Rao ruled from 1856-1870 AD.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"
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