World of Coins

Design and designing => Thematic collecting => Topic started by: nomadbird on March 14, 2011, 03:15:21 AM

Title: Dictators on Coins
Post by: nomadbird on March 14, 2011, 03:15:21 AM
Hi all

Has anyone attempted to do this thematic collection and how many dictator's are available on the coins ?

Thanks
Nirmal
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 14, 2011, 11:36:00 AM
First you need to define what you mean by dictator. From the 1920s to the 1940s, many European countries were not democracies. Of these, some were governed by totalitarians such as Hitler and Mussolini. Others were governed by the traditional authoritarian right, such as Franco in Spain and Admiral Horthy in Hungary. Even here, though they were undemocratic, Horthy was considered as reasonably enlightened, whilst Franco, who had to fight a civil war, is definitely considered a brutal dictator. And this is just to consider Europe over a short timescale, never mind the world.

As for the totalitarians, well, Hitler did not really want to appear on coins - he wanted to appear as a modest leader, selflessly struggling for Germany. There are one or two patterns (portraits of Hitler) that were prepared for him, but apparently they did not satisfy either him or the authorities. And after his death, there were no commemoratives of him for obvious reasons, though I did see one obvious "fantasy" in the 1980s. As for Mussolini, again, there are fantasies circulating that show his portrait, but no actual coins. The reason for this is that King of Italy was head of state, and it was HIS head that appeared on coins. In the end, it was the King who ultimately dismissed Mussolini from power in 1943 and had him arrested. Again, there are no commemoratives of Mussolini for obvious reasons, only post-war fantasies. If you want portraits of Hitler and Mussolini, you'd do best to collect stamps - see my Living Room topic Postage Stamps of World War 2 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6201.0.html).

Looking at wartime Europe, you could consider Admiral Horthy as a dictator, though hardly one of the worst. See my topic The Three Faces of Admiral Horthy (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,11977.0.html).

As for General Franco of Spain, his rule lasted from the late 1930s to the mid 1970s, and you can find his portrait on coins. See my topic General Franco, "el caudillo", and a Spanish enigma (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6652.0.html).

I know that Stalin appeared on a couple of Czechoslovak coins in the late 1940s or early 1950s. I think Christian knows which ones they are - I don't offhand.

Then there were the dictators of the Nazi puppet or satellite states, such as Slovakia, who were put into power by Hitler - see my topic here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9141.0.html).

Though the wartime king of Italy cannot be considered a dictator, there is an interestingly warlike portrait of him wearing a military helmet that appears on the coins of Italian-occupied Albania, which can be seen in another topic of mine: Italo-Albanian King, with and without helmet (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,11976.0.html).

Post-war, President Marcos of the Philippines appears on a coin with President Reagan:

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8766.0;attach=11687;image)

There are one or two Iraqi coins of the 1970s or 1980s that portray Saddam Hussein, but again I can't remember which ones off-hand. As for Africa, there are a few coins of the 1960s and 1970s that portray President Mobutu of Zaire/Democratic(!) Republic of Congo. That's all I can think of for now...
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on March 14, 2011, 11:51:37 AM
With Hitler it depends - initially he wanted to emphasize that his regime was "legal", ie. not established by a military coup. That is why Hindenburg, the president who appointed him, was depicted on coins shortly after he died. In later years, Hitler had no particular objections to being on a coin but wanted to wait until the "final victory". Also, ideas of depicting him on coins from an occupied territory (the "Generalgouvernement" in Poland) were soon discarded because Hitler wanted his mug to be on German Reich coins first, not some "peripheral" place ...

Then again, Stalin did not appear on USSR coins either but was indeed depicted on "satellite" coinage such as the 1949 commems from Czechoslovakia. In Spain, Franco (the "Caudillo by the grace of God") was shown - in Portugal, Salazar was not. Also, if a dictatorship does not have one "central figure" but a junta, it is less likely that the dictators are depicted - see Greece after the formal end of the monarchy. In my opinion, a collector who wants to pursue such a project should make a list of "suitable" dictators first, or at least have some criteria, before starting such a collection.

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 14, 2011, 11:56:49 AM
In my opinion, a collector who wants to pursue such a project should make a list of "suitable" dictators first, or at least have some criteria, before starting such a collection.

Christian

Yes, and do you want portraits of the dictators that were issued when they were still alive - or, as in the case of Lenin, commemoratives after their death? Do you want coins issued by the dictator's own country, like the coins of Franco on Spanish coins? Or coins issued by another country, such as the Czechoslovak coins that portray Stalin, dictator of the USSR?

Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on March 14, 2011, 12:07:53 PM
Another problem would be that dictator started out as a positive term: a Roman leader in times of war. You could probably call each and every Roman emperor a dictator. The Middle Ages knew only dictatorships, from Hengist and Horsa to Louis the pious. In the Renaissance, there were two well-known republics: Venice and the Netherlands (plus some German free cities.) In practice, both were ruled by a limited number of families and their cronies.

Maybe dictatorship can be defined in terms of its opposite: not a parliamentary democracy. However, this would lead you in trouble elsewhere. For instance, China has a parliament and an opposition, except that the opposition may be a bit too loyal. Japan has a parliament and an opposition, except that only in the last few decades the opposition actually got into power. Can of worms.

You might think you could collect political murderers on coins. Even that is not without pitfalls. I would consider Napoléon Bonaparte as the greatest butcher of Frenchmen in history, with Louis XIV as the nearest competition. Most Frenchmen would disagree. Some people's freedom fighters are other people's terrorists. Kenyans will think of Jomo Kenyatta as a freedom fighter, while Britishers may link him with the indiscriminate death and torture spread by the Mau Mau.

In the end, maybe the best you can do is make your own definition of dictator and collect accordingly, but without hope that there is agreement on the title.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: nomadbird on March 14, 2011, 07:39:33 PM
In the end, maybe the best you can do is make your own definition of dictator and collect accordingly, but without hope that there is agreement on the title.

Peter

I wanted to try my hands on on a theme which is less chosen, but this topic by itslef brought much knowledge to me from the members. I have just started my collection(world coins) and was looking for a weird theme)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: ciscoins on March 16, 2011, 12:41:23 PM
DPRK, 1 won 2000
Two dictators at one coin
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on March 16, 2011, 11:14:35 PM
How about this geezer?

(http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usbiography/c/images/olivercromwell-coin.jpg)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on March 17, 2011, 12:10:55 AM
I think you have just made collecting dictators prohibitively expensive ;)

Probably, any living president on a coin may be considered a dictator. Here is one who was beyond any reasonable doubt a dictator: Alfredo Stroessner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroessner). He may hold the record of number of types issued for the same 20th century dictator.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on March 17, 2011, 12:38:03 PM
DPRK, 1 won 2000
Two dictators at one coin

I had to read the inscription on the coin to work out who the one who isn't Kim Jong-Il is! Not a very good likeness of Vladimir Vladimirovich, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 17, 2011, 12:49:22 PM
I had to read the inscription on the coin to work out who the one who isn't Kim Jong-Il is! Not a very good likeness of Vladimir Vladimirovich, in my opinion.

Admittedly the artistry is rather Pobjoy-Mintish, but it only took me a second or two to recognise the weasel-like face of Rasputin Putin.

To view a topic on what are claimed to be pattern pieces that portray Adolf Hitler, click on the link below:

Two "pattern" coins that portray Adolf Hitler - are they genuine? (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9109.0.html)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on March 17, 2011, 01:49:01 PM
Admittedly the artistry is rather Pobjoy-Mintish, but it only took me a second or two to recognise the weasel-like face of Rasputin Putin.

They've made him better-looking and less weaselly than real life. This is a better likeness:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_W2AOzDlPYhM/RuIJONRzXyI/AAAAAAAAAGk/jhLCwOlk0fM/s320/dobby5.bmp)
Title: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Bimat on March 17, 2011, 01:50:52 PM
Hey that's a character in Harry Potter! (Part 2-Harry Potter and Chamber of Secrets).. :D ;D

Aditya
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on March 17, 2011, 01:59:25 PM
Hey that's a character in Harry Potter! (Part 2-Harry Potter and Chamber of Secrets).. :D ;D

Aditya

Yes, Dobby the House Elf appears in several of the Harry Potter books and movies. I don't know how internationally widespread the opinion is that Putin looks like Dobby, but it was well ingrained in British popular culture when the second film came out. It was reported that Putin was Not Amused by the comments and the Russian ambassador to the UK lodged a formal protest. A slight failure to understand the concept of freedom of speech there, methinks, not to mention a serious sense of humour failure!
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 17, 2011, 05:15:12 PM
Here is a 1000 dinar coin of 1980 from Yugoslavia. It celebrates the death of that evil dictator Tito, who used brutal force to keep Yugoslavia together, when really it just wanted to be seven different countries. Look what narrow, calculating, machinating eyes he has.

I have yet to see a commemorative of that much nicer dictator, Slobodan Milosevic, who broke up his country in order to give numismatists some new coin sets to collect.

 
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on March 18, 2011, 01:03:43 AM
Then again, Yugoslavia was quite different from the other "Eastern" countries in the years of the Cold War. You may well honor Tito for that ...

As for humor or the lack thereof, well, saying that people who do not share one's own sense of humor do not have any, that I have always found to be somewhat presumptuous. But I agree, authoritarian rulers are by and large not known for appreciating jokes about them.

Interestingly, Belarus (which is probably worse than Russia) does not issue any circulation coins. Hmmmm. :)

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: ciscoins on March 18, 2011, 09:10:29 AM
Interestingly, Belarus (which is probably worse than Russia) does not issue any circulation coins. Hmmmm. :)

Now there's no difference between two countries. But in previous years Belarus had a very high inflation rate, one of the highest in the World, so they couldn't even think about issuing coins because these coins would completely depreciate in 6-7 months.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 19, 2011, 01:03:57 AM
Here's that beast Stalin, on the Czechoslovak coin we talked about.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: nomadbird on March 19, 2011, 03:01:33 AM
Here's that beast Stalin, on the Czechoslovak coin we talked about.

Do you have a copy of this ?
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on March 19, 2011, 03:18:07 AM
A copy? No, I don't own the coin and wouldn't want to. I just found a nice image of it. It's nice to illustrate the subject.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on April 23, 2011, 12:22:15 AM
I suppose that anyone who rules undemocratically can be called a dictator. The Arabs and Iran have a big problem in this regard. They have corrupt kings, or else military or party dictators, or religious dictators. The only exceptions are those countries that are Western-occupied "protectorates". These are the only four options that will eventually be open to Libya.

Some examples.
 
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on April 23, 2011, 12:28:57 AM
Europe had its dictators too, of course. Remember the brutal neo-Stalinist Nicolae Ceausescu, shot on Xmas day 1989, along with his wife?
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on April 23, 2011, 12:36:55 AM
Sure, except that is not a coin. ;D Ceauşescu never appeared on one. This could be a pattern or a medal, dunno.

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on April 23, 2011, 12:38:41 AM
Sure, except that is not a coin. ;D Ceauşescu never appeared on one. This could be a pattern or a medal, dunno.

Christian

Don't you dictate to me what it is or isn't!
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on April 23, 2011, 01:10:18 AM
Well, here is a pattern portraying the third most murderous dictator of the 20th century, after Stalin and Mao.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9109.0;attach=12335;image)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on April 23, 2011, 03:21:04 AM
And the winner is...

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 01:58:25 PM
General Franco of Spain was most definitely a dictator. He prosecuted the Spanish Civil War most brutally. After he took a town or village, captured Republicans were variously thrown off clifftops or rounded up in the local bull-fighting stadium and machine-gunned.

See also: General Franco, "el caudillo", and a Spanish enigma (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6652.0.html).

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6652.0;attach=8931;image)

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6652.0;attach=13360;image)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 02:15:22 PM
Saparmurat Niyazov of Turkmenistan was born in 1940 and died in 2006. He became president of Turkmenistan after the collapse of the USSR, ruling from 1990 until his death. He was a particularly eccentric dictator, and is said to have boiled his political opponents alive, giving the impression that he had watched too many James Bond films and identified with the villains.

From Wikipedia:

Niyazov requested that a "palace of ice", or indoor ice skating rink, be built near the capital, so that those living in the desert country could learn to skate. The palace was built in 2008 and located near the new Turkmen State Medical University.

Gold teeth were outlawed in Turkmenistan after Niyazov suggested that the populace chew on bones to strengthen their teeth and lessen the rate at which they fall out. He said: "I watched young dogs when I was young. They were given bones to gnaw to strengthen their teeth. Those of you whose teeth have fallen out did not chew on bones. This is my advice."


(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34863.0;attach=60820;image)

 
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9567.0;attach=12666;image)

Ante Pavelić was Poglavnik ("Leader") of "The Independent State of Croatia" from 1941 to 1945. He was a Nazi collaborator, who would never have come to power in his own right, but he was as brutal as any Nazi. Pavelić set about creating a “purified” Croatia. He hated the Serbs, who formed a significant minority of Croatia’s population, and their Orthodox religion, while idealising the Croats and their Catholicism. His policy, he claimed, was to convert one third of Serbs to Catholicism, expel one third, and kill one third.

The only issued coin that depicted Pavelić was the gold 500 kuna coin, dated 1941. These 500 kuna coins were presented as gifts to foreign rulers and dignitaries.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9567.0;attach=12668;image)

After the war Pavelić managed to hide in Italy until 1948, when he escaped to Argentina and was protected by the Peron regime. In April 1957 he was shot in the back and seriously wounded, it is presumed by a member of Yugoslav intelligence. At the end of 1957 he flew to Spain, where dictator General Franco granted him asylum. He settled in Madrid and died in December 1959, reportedly from complications due to the bullet still lodged in his spine.

See also:

1] Croatia: Nazi Satellite State, 1941-5 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9567.0.html).

2] Croatia of the 1930s: Official unrealised designs and a terrorist fantasy (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9566.0.html).

3] Croatia: Rare wartime patterns from the Nazi satellite state (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9269.0.html).


Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 03:07:07 PM
Miklós Horthy ruled the Kingdom of Hungary as Regent from 1920 to 1944. He was deposed by the Nazi-backed Arrow Cross Movement after he put out peace feelers to the Allies. It is said that under him, Hungary was a kingdom without a king, ruled by a Admiral without a navy.

He is best described as an authoritarian conservative or reactionary, who was stuck between two large and dangerous neighbours: Nazi Germany and Bolshevik Russia. Circumstances led him to side with the Axis. However, in his post World War 2 memoirs, Horthy cited the Austro-Hungarian empire as his political ideal.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11977.0;attach=73486;image)

See also: The Three Faces of Admiral Horthy (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,11977.0.html)

 
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 03:11:27 PM
Jozef Tiso.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9141.0;attach=12418;image)

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9141.0;attach=12430;image)

After first annexing the Sudetenland for the Third Reich, Adolf Hitler encouraged Jozef Tiso, a Catholic priest and the leader of the Slovak People’s Party, to declare Slovakia’s independence. Tiso declared Slovakia independent on 14th March 1939. The next day Hitler invaded what was left of Czechoslovakia, which he turned into the Nazi “protectorate” of Bohemia and Moravia.

Slovakia became a Nazi satellite or puppet state. Tiso became the president and authoritarian dictator of the country. Though he was more of an old-fashioned authoritarian conservative than a fascist, he did allow many of Slovakia’s Jews to be deported to their death in Germany, until late 1942. The tide of war then turned, and Slovakia was occupied by the Soviets in April 1945 and reintegrated into Czechoslovakia. Tiso was found guilty of state treason and hanged in April 1947.

See also: Slovakia: Two states, three coinages (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9141.0.html).
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 03:26:44 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H25217%2C_Henry_Philippe_Petain_und_Adolf_Hitler.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H25217%2C_Henry_Philippe_Petain_und_Adolf_Hitler.jpg)

After Hitler defeated France, Maréchal Philippe Pétain, a French military hero of the First World War, became head of the "French State", or the Vichy regime, as it is known. He did this, he claimed, to save part of France from the bitterness of occupation. No doubt he was sincere in this belief, but the verdict of history has been harsh, and nowadays he is largely regarded as a Nazi collaborator. He set up a reactionary authoritarian regime, which allowed the deportation of foreign-born Jews to Nazi Germany, and he also agreed to send his own citizens to Nazi Germany as industrial workers.

After the war he was tried and sentenced to death but De Gaulle, who was President of the Provisional Government of the French Republic at the end of the war, commuted it to life imprisonment on the grounds of Pétain's age and his World War I contributions. Pétain was eventually imprisoned on a remote French island in the Atlantic, where he died in 1951.

See also: France 5 francs 1941 Maréchal Philippe Pétain (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6087.0.html).

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6087.0;attach=7876;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6087.0;attach=7878;image)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 05:18:45 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/Jean-B%C3%A9del_Bokassa.jpg)

Jean-Bédel Bokassa was born in 1921 and died in 1996. In 1962 he was made commander-in-chief of the army of the Central African Republic by President David Dacko, his cousin. In December 1965, Bokassa lauched a coup against his cousin and proclaimed himself president.

His career after that was typical of the worst of the African leaders. In 1976 he had himself crowned Emperor, and changed the name of his country to the Central African Empire. From Wikipedia: The coronation ceremony lasted for two days and cost 10 million GBP. The ceremony was organised by French artist Jean-Pierre Dupont. Parisian jeweller Claude Bertrand made his crown, which included diamonds. Bokassa sat on a two-ton throne modeled in the shape of a large eagle made from gold. His regalia, lavish coronation ceremony and regime of the newly formed Central African Empire were largely inspired by Napoleon I. The ceremony consumed one third of the Central African Empire's annual budget and all of France's aid money for that year, but despite generous invitations, no foreign leaders attended the event.

In the 1970s there were rumours reported in the European press that Bokassa was mad and consumed human flesh. Eventually France, his main supporter, became embarrassed by his brutality and invaded the country, overthrowing Bokassa and restoring Dacko to power.

To read more about Bokassa, visit the Wikipedia webpage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-B%C3%A9del_Bokassa

Bokassa died in the Central African Republic in 1996.

In 1970, the Central African Republic issued various gold coins to celebrate the 10th anniversary of its independence. The coins depict Bokassa on the obverse.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on July 31, 2011, 05:23:30 PM
With the exception of many of the Venetian doges, most of the world rulers before 1795-1848 can be seen as dictators. Here is an example of one with a particularly bad press: Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, Nero to his enemies.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on July 31, 2011, 05:43:13 PM
In my mind, Antonio Salazar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/António_de_Oliveira_Salazar) qualifies as a dictator of Portugal, but he didn't make it on a coin. Or did he? His name appears on a Portuguese commemorative for the Salazar bridge, now known to the world as the Ponte 25 de Abril (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_de_Abril_Bridge).

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on July 31, 2011, 06:16:30 PM
No, Salazar never appeared on Portuguese coins. But lots of dictators or authoritarian rulers have never been depicted on the coinage of their countries: Hitler (much to the chagrin of many nazi coin collectors 8) ) and Stalin (just on that commem from Czechoslovakia), and lots of others from Eastern Europe, South America, Africa, etc.

In the Americas, Fidel Castro and Alfredo Stroessner come to mind. But by and large, the dictators over there did not appear on money. May also be because they were often part of a junta. Guess that is also the reason why the Greek coins from about 40 years ago, once the dictatorship became a republic, did not depict Georgios Papadopoulos ...

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on July 31, 2011, 06:49:31 PM
Castro is on Cuba KM 253, 254, 255 and 257 1 peso 1989 revolution, 612 1 peso Vatican meeting and higher denominated pseudo coins. Stroessner is on several pseudo coins of Paraguay. Peron didn't make it, but Evita did. She probably doesn't count, though.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on July 31, 2011, 07:36:48 PM
Seeing those Franco coins reminds me of how poor a likeness of him they are, in my opinion. They don't look anything like the portrait of him on the stamps of the same period (which themselves show him younger than he really was -- he was getting on for 80 when he died); the stamps though are a closer representation of what he looked like in real life.

Figleaf: In my mind, a dictator is someone who rules autocratically without any constitutional legitimacy other than that created by him himself. This rules out hereditary leaders where the constitution, or well established custom, provides for a familial succession. That does not diminish the appalling barbarities perpetrated by some kings, emperors and such over the centuries. Essentially my view of a dictator is an absolute monarch who is not in office by virtue of birth. So, Cromwell = dictator, Charles I = not dictator; Robespierre = dictator, Louis XVI = not dictator -- without prejudice to anyone's assessment of those men's various activities in furthering their hold on power.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on July 31, 2011, 10:10:10 PM
So how do you fit in William the conqueror, Elisabeth I (excluded from succession by law), William III and George I?

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on July 31, 2011, 10:20:18 PM
The infallible meeting the infallible.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: FosseWay on July 31, 2011, 10:26:37 PM
BTW this is in response to Figleaf's last.

Hehe, there are always going to be difficult ones...  ;)

William III and George I: I wouldn't term these as dictators as to all intents and purposes they were constitutional monarchs. OK, they had more power than our current queen but are closer to her position than that of Charles I or Louis XIV.

Elizabeth was excluded from the succession but reinstated later. I don't think she merits the appellation 'dictator' any more than her father.

William I: an interesting case. To the English he meant something different than to the Normans, for whom he was a normal dynastic monarch (albeit a duke rather than a king).

I'm not disputing the dictatorial tendencies of many of these rulers, btw -- just trying to get to the bottom of why we reserve the word 'dictator' for non-royals who achieve and maintain power purely on their military might and not by appealing to the legitimacy of an institution or God.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on July 31, 2011, 11:11:16 PM
Seriously, I think your method rewards winners (George I, farther away from formal succession than the Stuart pretenders, William III, driving the legal king off the throne) and punishes losers (Cromwell & son, losing out to the Stuarts in the end). For a non-English example, look here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,10870.0.html). Was Louis Napoléon a dictator because he usurped the leadership of the country for the benefit of another dictator (not unlike father Tiso, represented in this thread), or was he a regular bloke doing his smelly best to do a good job and failing in the end? Clue: he may have been the most popular Dutch king ever.

So now, it's my turn to define dictator. I go back to the Roman Republic times, when a dictator was a military leader with extraordinary powers for wartime only. I define a dictator as one who 1) has effectively no political opposition and in addition 2) in practice needs no permissions, money allocations or additional power to conduct war.

Shoot. I'll help. This definition lets father Tiso off the hook.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on August 01, 2011, 12:19:50 AM
Seeing those Franco coins reminds me of how poor a likeness of him they are, in my opinion. They don't look anything like the portrait of him on the stamps of the same period (which themselves show him younger than he really was -- he was getting on for 80 when he died); the stamps though are a closer representation of what he looked like in real life.

One reason could be that, on those stamps, Franco looks looks at you so to say. On the coins (see the two Franco coins (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9065.msg72918.html#msg72918) that coffeetime posted) you have his profile. Here are two images of 1 peseta coins, from Wikipedia. The first one (1953/56) shows the earlier type, the second one (1966/75) has the later type. That second type I find more characteristic ...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/1953_1_Pesetas.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/1975_1_Pesetas.jpg

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: andyg on August 01, 2011, 12:28:07 AM
One reason could be that, on those stamps, Franco looks looks at you so to say. On the coins (see the two Franco coins (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9065.msg72918.html#msg72918) that coffeetime posted) you have his profile. Here are two images of 1 peseta coins, from Wikipedia. The first one (1953/56) shows the earlier type, the second one (1966/75) has the later type. That second type I find more characteristic ...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/1953_1_Pesetas.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/1975_1_Pesetas.jpg

Christian


you know, I must have looked at thousands of those over the years - and never noticed two portraits   :o
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on August 01, 2011, 12:47:46 AM
The other way around for me. I thought the portrait on the 5 pesetas 1949 (KM 778) was different from that on later coins (e.g. KM 786, its successor), but I can't see a difference now.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on August 03, 2011, 07:47:13 PM
How about Chiang-Kai-Shek - was he a dictator? Here is the 200 yuan coin issued in honour of his 80th birthday in 1966.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on August 03, 2011, 10:22:01 PM
In my definition, he was. No (domestic) opposition to the KMT, free to fight a war.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on August 17, 2013, 02:03:59 AM
Dominican Republic, 30 pesos (gold), 1955.  Rafael Trujillo.  25th anniversary of the era of Trujillo.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: SquareEarth on October 03, 2013, 06:41:42 PM
How about Chiang-Kai-Shek - was he a dictator? Here is the 200 yuan coin issued in honour of his 80th birthday in 1966.
We shall also include his son, Chiang Ching-kuo
100 Years Anniversary of President Chiang Ching-Kuo's birth, Year 99 of the Republic (2010), 10 New Taiwan Dollars.
(http://web.archive.org/web/20151110183755/http://imagizer.imageshack.us/scaled/landing/534/nro7.png)

He looks so awkward on the coin.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: SquareEarth on October 03, 2013, 06:51:14 PM
Park Chung-hee, 1970, 10000 Won, 5000 Years of History of Korea

(http://web.archive.org/web/20151110183827/http://imagizer.imageshack.us/scaled/landing/692/z1pj.jpg)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: SquareEarth on October 03, 2013, 07:06:37 PM
10 Pahlavi, The House of Pahlavi, Iran 2536 (Since Cyrus)/ 1977 (Since Jesus)
(http://web.archive.org/web/20151110183703/http://imagizer.imageshack.us/scaled/landing/855/jgl6.jpg)(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/198/xo45.jpg)

Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: SquareEarth on October 03, 2013, 07:19:06 PM
Ho Chi Minh Centenary Viet Nam 1989 20 Dong
(http://art-hanoi.com/collection/vncoins/vn-km40a-o.jpg)(http://art-hanoi.com/collection/vncoins/vn-km40a-r.jpg)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on January 22, 2014, 07:15:12 PM
Syria, 25 pounds, 1995.  President Hafiz Al-Assad.  The 25th anniversary of the corrective movement.

President Assad maintained the one-party state and instituted a cult of personality.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on January 25, 2014, 11:05:45 AM
Gamal Abdel Nasser cared neither for the opposition Moslem Brotherhood, nor for elections. How little has changed in Egypt after all was said and done.

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: redwine on February 15, 2014, 05:40:19 PM
Fantasy Mussolini piece dated 1943.

35.2mm
16g
Medal aligned
Non magnetic.
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on February 15, 2014, 07:02:08 PM
I know that some collectors get desperate because their "favorite" dictators are not on coins. ;)  But I wonder whether we should add such fantasy issues and pseudo-coins ...

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: redwine on February 15, 2014, 08:27:23 PM
My favourite dictator is me  ;D
Yet to appear on a coin but I feel it is just a question of time..........................
But, please show me concrete proof that this is a creation of the 60s/70s.....................................................................
Having inadvertently visited a Mussolini stronghold in the 1990s I wouldn't be surprised  ::)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on February 15, 2014, 11:53:20 PM
Frankly, I have no idea when that piece was (first) made, my Great Dictator. ;D  All I know is that there was and is some demand for them. According to this page http://www.forumancientcoins.com/monetaromana/corrisp/a831/a831.html , for example, some of those Mussolini pieces were made in the 1970s. My main point was that we should keep actual coins and such, hmm, apocrypha apart ...

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: redwine on February 16, 2014, 07:32:24 AM
Yes, understood Christian ;)
Apocrypha! I must be an Apocryphanumismatist  8) Sounds about right  :P
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: Figleaf on February 16, 2014, 11:02:36 AM
The Italian piece is indeed not a coin, pseudo coin (too late to keep those out) or a trade token. More information here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,3123.0.html).

Peter
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on December 25, 2017, 11:12:49 PM
The 60th birthday of Saparmurat Niyazov, Turkmenistan's first President (1990-2006).
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: bart on December 26, 2017, 01:12:37 PM
I see this thread doesn't contain Mobutu Sese Seko yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobutu_Sese_Seko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobutu_Sese_Seko)
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: chrisild on December 26, 2017, 01:27:01 PM
The 60th birthday of Saparmurat Niyazov, Turkmenistan's first President (1990-2006).

That particular piece seems to be a medal, but yes, Niyazov was depicted on many coins, even circulation coins. In terms of birthday presents, six coins and three official medals were issued for that 60th. One shows his father, one his mother, others show his brothers, etc. Two years later, four coins for the 62nd birthday, and another two (65th) in 2005. Oh, and in 2006 they issued a set of six coins featuring Niyazov's literary works ... ::)

Christian
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on December 26, 2017, 01:27:45 PM
Several years ago, I wrote a topic about Mobutu: Zaire, and the many faces of Mobutu (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9499.0.html).
Title: Re: Dictators on Coins
Post by: <k> on December 28, 2017, 10:11:43 PM
Georgia, 500 lari, 1995.  50th anniversary in World War 2.

Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill, De Gaulle.  Which of these men were dictators?