World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Japan, North and South Korea => Topic started by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 11:40:18 AM

Title: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 11:40:18 AM
Does anyone know the meaning of the extra two characters on the coin on the right?
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: Figleaf on September 04, 2010, 02:28:01 PM
견 = Gyeon 븐 = Beun. Silk Haven. Now what?

Peter
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: ciscoins on September 04, 2010, 06:12:40 PM
Or "dogs haven". Both variants look like nonsense.

Maybe this is something like "no stars / 1 star / 2 stars" varieties of the coins of previous issues?
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 06:25:11 PM
Possibly,  I've an idea that it means 'reproduction' :-[
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 07:50:55 PM
Here's the full set.
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: ciscoins on September 04, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Where did you get them? These varieties are not listed in Krause.
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 09:00:42 PM
These varieties are not listed in Krause.

Which makes me think they are fairly new and possibly not real coins....
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: translateltd on September 04, 2010, 09:45:56 PM
I believe the vowel in the second syllable is o (the small extra vertical stroke in the middle is there, but is quite hard to see).  Kyeonbon = pattern/sample/model, which at least makes more sense numismatically.

Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: translateltd on September 04, 2010, 10:00:15 PM
Let's take this one step further.  Even though the Koreans don't like to admit it, there is usually a one-to-one correspondence between Korean and Japanese words, despite the difference in writing systems.  So if we look at the underlying Chinese characters (used by Japan and still present in a phantom capacity in Korea), 見本, these are the characters that the Japanese print on "Specimen" banknotes.  So "Specimen" is the most likely actual meaning for "Kyeonbon" shown on these coins.

(Note that "eo" is just a typographical convention representing a short "o", as in the English "dog"; "o" is always long, as in "bone", though a nice pure vowel, not the awful diphthongs that almost all English speakers use by default!)
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 04, 2010, 10:30:12 PM
Thanks Martin, I bought the earlier set as 'Specimen' but didn't think it would actually be written on the coin!  Armed with my new knowledge I've emailed the seller to see if I can find out more....

A big thank you to all for this interesting thread :)
Title: Re: Korea, 50 Chon 2002 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 12, 2010, 09:18:55 PM
I found out some more about these, not from the ebay seller who has remained silent, but from Wolfgang.

They have apparently recently been issued to for sale to tourists as a money making exercise.
Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: Figleaf on September 12, 2010, 09:39:58 PM
So what are they? Circulating coins? Can they be spent? Are they sold at face value? Are they souvenirs, patterns or coins? In view of North Korean issue policies, I am inclined to opt for souvenirs, to be listed in "unusual coins", not in SCWC as coins, at best in SCWC as pattern set.

Peter
Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 12, 2010, 10:21:31 PM
So what are they? Circulating coins? Can they be spent? Are they sold at face value? Are they souvenirs, patterns or coins? In view of North Korean issue policies, I am inclined to opt for souvenirs, to be listed in "unusual coins", not in SCWC as coins, at best in SCWC as pattern set.

Peter

No, No, No, Yes, No, No ;)

They are in essence the same as the 2002 North Korean 'coins' which are listed in the standard catalogue. Sold at a premium to collectors.  The 5 Won in this thread (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,7414.0.html) is exactly the same.
Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: Figleaf on September 13, 2010, 12:31:06 PM
Their place is in "unusual coins" then. It's wonderful how information can shorten your want list, but I would still prefer it to lengthen my want list :-\

Peter
Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: translateltd on September 13, 2010, 08:28:53 PM
Are they perhaps in the same class as Polish coins marked "proba" - I know the latter often differ somewhat from the circulating issues in design detail, but appear to be available in greater numbers than normal trial/pattern strikes so presumably are sold off officially.  I would suggest that leaving them in the regular SCWC but in a separate section at the end of the DPRK listing would be the best approach, as moving them to UWC would likely cause confusion (*we* may know what the extra letters mean, but anyone finding the coins would look in SCWC first, find the plain and starred versions, and wonder why the "letter" types aren't included).  They're still official issues, after all, not fantasies produced by private mints or for fictitious or unrecognised entities.


Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: andyg on September 13, 2010, 11:07:56 PM
Are they perhaps in the same class as Polish coins marked "proba" - I know the latter often differ somewhat from the circulating issues in design detail, but appear to be available in greater numbers than normal trial/pattern strikes so presumably are sold off officially. [...] They're still official issues, after all, not fantasies produced by private mints or for fictitious or unrecognised entities.

Just because I own a set doesn't necessarily mean I know a lot about them, but this is essentially what I've been told from other sources.
Title: Re: Korea, Pattern coin set 1958-70, 2002-08 (2009)
Post by: gxseries on September 15, 2010, 06:21:45 AM
Question, where can I get my hands on a similar set? Does the seller happen to have another set?